Episode 14

Getting Your Mindset Right and How to Position Yourself Online

by | Oct 14, 2020 | Podcast

How do you feel about charging for your product or service? If you are like most entrepreneurs this can be a difficult thing to do. Thoughts start crossing your mind like, “Am I charging too much?”, “What if others are charging less for a similar product?”, “Will anyone even buy what I have to offer?”

In this episode, we cover how to accomplish all this and more! Listen in to learn how to get your mindset right and position yourself online for success.

Nick (00:00): One of the most difficult things as an entrepreneur and especially a new entrepreneur is coming to terms with the fact that you have something valuable to offer. It can be difficult to imagine that something you yourself created can be value to someone else in that someone else would be willing to pay you and maybe even pay you a premium price for what you have to offer. That's where today's guest Rich White comes in. He helps small businesses and entrepreneurs with their mindset around pricing, and helps to better position them in the market. In most cases, what you have to offer it is amazing value, but how you present or showcase that value can be the difference between a product that sells in one that falls flat. If you've already been listening to the Nine-Five Podcast, welcome back. If you're just tuning in to the Nine-Five Podcast for the very first time welcome, my name is Nick Nalbach, and I am here to help you grow your business by trying out different strategies and tactics. And most importantly, interviewing the ones who are succeeding at it. In this episode, we are going to cover many awesome ways to think about what you're offering and how it can provide real world value to others. So let's go right into this episode with Rich hit the music. This is the Nine-Five Podcast, and I'm your host, Nick Nalbach, where we get into the minds of entrepreneurs and people just like you. So you can start, build and grow your own online business.

Nick (01:24): Welcome to the Nine-Five Podcast. I am sitting here with Rich White and today we are going to talk about mindset and positioning in online business. So Rich, welcome to the Nine-Five Podcast.

Rich (01:37): Thank you for having me. It's good to be here.

Nick (01:39): Absolutely. I like to start off every episode, giving you a chance to let the listeners know who you are and what it is you actually do. So why don't you fill everybody in on what'd you got going on?

Rich (01:49): Sure. Right. So, uh, at the moment I run a marketing agency. I've got about a decade of experience in marketing across the board. But the other thing I do, sort of the main thing I do is consulting. So I consult business owners, particularly when there is help them with the positioning of their business, help them see things. I don't change what they do, but I help them see it in a different way.

Rich (02:11): So they can position themselves away from competitors in a way that allows them to increase their fees. If that's something they're interested in doing and enables them to get that time, back to charge on what they're worth and what they deserve rather than what they think they should charge. Because someone down the roads during it, half price and basically build the business they treat. If you know, cause I think most people would go into business with themselves, with the, with the dreams of earning more and working less. And you normally it's the reverse happens and you end up working more and earning less particularly if you, if you've had that nine to five previously and you, and you've had that steady paycheck and you can, you can clock out at five-ish. Sometimes you work a bit late, but you know, you, you kind of get used to that lifestyle and then you work for yourself. Anything that's stability is not there. So you either keep working more because you need to make up the, in the income or you're worried that you could go tomorrow. So kind of in a nutshell, I helped them with the positioning, with the mindset, just reframing them, saying some things to say what you think you do isn't necessarily actually what you do.

Nick (03:11): Perfect. I'm really interested. I got some, a lot of questions for you about that because I think that is a very, I mean the mindset, especially getting into entrepreneurship, that's a huge, I don't know, it's a huge hurdle to get over. Cause yeah, you have that stability, everything around you from that nine to five job. And then all of a sudden you wipe all that away. And now it's just, you it's like you're on an Island. That's all you got before we even get into that. I like to ask all of my guests that come on the show, what their super power is and by superpower. I mean, what is the one thing that you do that is way better than anybody else? Maybe it's something where friends come to you or peers and colleagues come to you for this one thing. Or you're just like an expert in this one particular thing. What do you think your super power would be?

Rich (03:56): Yeah, it's funny. Cause I don't normally I never really see myself in that light, but you know, thinking about that question and the way you framed it, what people come to me for is I'm kind of known as the level headed reasonable person, calm, head in a crisis kind of thing. Um, and then I'm good at listening and translating that to my introduction about what I do. I think obviously there's that big cliche if I think outside the box, I think differently, but that is kind of what I tend to do where it's, I tend to find a way to kind of find clarity amongst a lot of noise.

Nick (04:28): That's something like you mentioned listening. And that's something that I feel like a lot of people you hear that often, but at the same time, it's something that it's hard to comprehend that, you know what I mean? Like yeah, you need to listen better active listening. Like it's just a tough thing to do, but everybody can be working on.

Rich (04:46): Yeah, it's interesting you say that because just so you know, people go on my website, there's a button to book a free 15 minute discovery call and it's amazing how productive those 15 minutes can be. I mean, we can have those calls, you know, sometimes they'll go on longer, but a lot of times people will leave that call feeling very different than when they came onto the call. And what's really interesting from the listening point of view is actually a lot of the time they've already got the answers. They just don't know they've got the answers and you ask the right questions or you just give them scope to speak and it comes out and then you just point it back at them and say, this is what you've got to do. And then there's no persuasion involved. I don't tell people you're doing it wrong. It's just, here's the answer, you know, kind of like, you know, the diamond in the rough type thing, you know,

Nick (05:31): That's, it's really interesting that you said that because I was listening. Yeah. I talk about the Pat Flynn podcast, smart, passive income all the time, but I'm fairly certain, he had some guest on that talked very similarly and he said a lot of his interviews he'll do like one on one consultations with people and a lot of it. Yeah. It's just positioning the questions and asking the right things at the right time. And really, like you said, the answers, they already have the answer. It's just a matter of putting it in a specific light. And then it's like, Oh yeah, you're a genius. I was like, no, you had it in yourself the whole time. Yeah. Well didn't think about it.

Rich (06:05): What happens with business? Like, you know, I think everyone knows this. I don't think there's anything regulatory that I'm about to say, but you go into business with these big ambitions or big dreams and then like life itself, the business has its own ideas and you end up just kind of going where it takes you. And then you look back sometime in the future and think, Oh shit, I'm not doing what I set out to do. And a lot of the time that's a very reactive approach. It's, you're reacting to the two people undercutting you on price. You're reacting to obviously the pandemic right now. But yeah, you're reacting to everything that gets thrown at you rather than doing the business that you originally set out to do.

Nick (06:40): I think that's well put, let's start diving right into this mindset and position. I'm excited to talk about this before we get too deep into it. Why don't you, you already mentioned you do a 15 minute consultation with your clients specifically. Like how do you help clients and how does that process kind of work?

Rich (06:58): So what do I do? I mean, I offer a few things. So there's people hire me as just a straight consultant. And then, you know, you kind of get so many hours a month and we have regular check ins and that's just really about helping them kind of get from A to B to C, but then alongside that, you know, I've got the marketing agency services. So we provide kind of pretty much what you'd expect from an agency. Really, you know, we can do social media management. We do the marketing strategy with the cut with PR and photography and graphic design, web design, you know, it's, we do all that fun stuff. The keyword in there, I think being strategy. And this is where a lot of people, this may be a slight tangent, but a lot of people, especially new, especially like new businesses, startups, it's really easy to get caught up in the tactics for marketing.

Rich (07:40): You know, I need to do ads. I need to do Facebook ads. I need to do SEO. And then what you haven't got is that end to end strategy. So, you know, I spoke to someone recently who wanted to spend, I see wanting to, he was on the verge of spending thousands of pounds or thousands of dollars on YouTube ads and had this conversation and it's okay, well what happens next? And he's like, what do you mean? What happens next? That's it? The plan is hopefully everyone subscribes and I get a really big channel. The reality of it obviously being that you spent thousands of dollars, you may get thousands of views, but if you're not capturing those people, you're hoping they're going to come back and they're hoping you're going to appear again in the ad feed ad stream. So then you've got it.

Rich (08:15): You've got to pay again. So a lot of people miss in the, the strategy, I think this is one of the potential downfalls of social media. I think where everyone's got this opinion of, you just need to run Facebook ads and you've got a Facebook page. You need to be blogging into this. And it's, you know, real cookie cutter advice. And the reality is you don't necessarily need that. Those aren't necessarily the things that are going to be paying the bills and building your business. And yeah, they're right for some businesses, but you can't just automatically take it that they're right for you. And, and so the strategies on the big things that I help people with is like, how do we get where you are to where you want to be? How do we keep these site visitors in your orbit? How do we make the most out of that traffic for you?

Rich (08:53): So you've got, just spent that money for like, you know, a real peak and then it disappears again. So the process is very prospect led know I do a very custom service. So I don't just say I do SEO. Who wants it? It's okay. You're in this position. You know, I'm talking to a woman recently who everyone was wanting to get into SEO and we had like an hour or so on the phone. And we realized that at the end of that call, SEO is a waste of time for you right now. You're gonna spend a lot of money and you'll probably be out of business by the time you start seeing results from that. It's not the right approach for you at the moment. So it's very prospect-led.

Nick (09:25): That's something I've been preaching a lot to the people that I work with on social media is figuring out what that why is. And if you don't have a why, and you're just up there doing stuff, cause everyone's saying, this is what you need to be doing. You really, you're not helping yourself. You're just going through motions wasting a lot of time. You have to figure out where you're trying to go with the strategy. It might work for some people, but it works because of their, they have a purpose for why they're doing it. It's not, they're not just doing it to do it. That's, that's something we actually, I think it was episode nine. I had an episode with Lenny Richardson who is also, he it's, he does digital marketing for his clients and companies, stuff like that. And he talked about the same thing, having a strategy. And I was like, the first thing you do is identify what that strategy is. And after you've identified it, then you can start putting together the steps to actually accomplish those goals. But without the strategy, you're just spinning wheels basically.

Rich (10:17): Yeah. It's like marketing now is it's I say now maybe it always was. I mean, there's so many options now. Yeah. It's not like, you know, maybe back in the day you had the choice of I'll take a radio ad, a TV ad or a billboard kind of thing, and a newspaper ad me. Now you've got every digital platform plus all the offline channels. Plus you've got influencer marketing, you know, you've, you've got videos, you've got audio, you've got imagery, you've got text, you've got everything with the scalable budgets, you know, and retargeting. And you can just do some things. And I kind of, it's like a menu, you know, you go to a restaurant, there's just this menu, this long list of things to choose from. And I suppose to run with this analogy that I've just thought of. So it may be terrible, but you know, the strategy is kind of looking at you have your, your starter, your main, and your dessert and you kind of, it fits together.

Rich (10:58): Whereas that's sort of ad hoc or A La Carte approach to it's. Um, you know what, I'll have this don't have that. None of it necessarily fits together. I'll have to check and I'll have the lobster or I'll have something else with it. And then you get disappointed that it comes out as this mess. And then you leave the restaurant. I say, our restaurant is terrible. And it's like, no, you, you picked it wrong. And then it's just the same with marketing. You know, you can, you can pick all the strategies, do it wrong, blame the strategies and actually kind of just pick the wrong thing. And that, and I think what I see every day, every day is the, the ethics in marketers, I guess, you know, where it's, these are the services I offer and I'm going to offer them to everyone regardless whether they need it.

Rich (11:37): So, you know, you'll be like, you'll be on a Facebook group. And someone will say, Oh, like, can someone do this? And then you just get like piranha'd, you know, just swarming to that person. I say, we can do this. I said, that's not what they asked. We don't know she needs that. Or he needs that, you know, you're just offering in a very opportunistic way. And then that causes so much confusion with people. And then they say, well I can't ask for marketing advice because they'll lie to me to sell me their service. And you know, so I'm not saying everyone's like that, of course, but online, it's very easy to think. Everyone's like that

Nick (12:06): The Facebook group thing is it's tough. Cause I want to be involved in Facebook groups. But like you said, you'd get piranha'd. You get attacked. It's like sign up for my thing. Or like the classic is like out or they say, Oh, are you interested in like my digital marketing services? Or you want me to show you how to do digital marketing reply with I'm in or something. And then you get all these people to reply and it's like, okay, you can clearly tell that this guy is full of shit. He's trying to sell you something. That's not going to work. But apparently it works.

Rich (12:40): Yes. It's wild out there. Yeah.

Nick (12:42): Yeah. Okay. Now you had mentioned something very interesting to me and it's something that I actually see quite a bit. You talked about helping people set their prices and the positioning. And when people get into online business, I know I kind of fall victim to this as well. I come out with something and I think, well, why would someone pay top dollar for something that I made like you most kind of knock yourself down a peg because you think, well, I'm not anybody special. Why would someone pay me 200, 300 bucks for this product or service? Like what do I have to offer? And that's a huge hurdle that people have to get over. So now do you help people kind of get over that hurdle? Kind of realize that I have value here.

Rich (13:25): Yeah. You're right. It's a, it's a massive hurdle, both in, I mean, massive in two senses, one, how many people, it affects. It's a very widespread program. And two is the enormity of the problem itself. It can really hold you back. You know, I've got a client now who we're not quite, we haven't quite got her priced in where I'm trying to get her to go. But that's because it was quite a big leap from where she was to where it's going to be, but it's moving there. And actually the response is completely changed. And this is the great thing about it. That it's changed her confidence to what she does. Actually, the, the mindset of it was previously that you kind of just touched on this, you know, why would anyone pay me more? I'll, I'll charge whatever people will pay. If they hack it I'll meet them.

Rich (14:10): I need the work. You know, I'm lucky to get anyone. And then we started increasing her prices. And I don't mean her horrifically. It's not to extort anyone and I'll get to that in a second, but we just put them where they should have been for the value that she's providing. And we had that conversation of what do you really do? And now her mindset is if this person doesn't want to work with me, that's fine. Like they'd get to work with me. And she says, the confidence that she's had is transformational. Now, one of the things, this is a really good exercise that we did together was we had this conversation and I said to her, if you were to take, I like car analogies. I don't know why I'm not even a Petro heck but I like car analogies. And I said to her, if you were to liken your services to any car on the market, from your sort of like entry level, sort of scouters, you'd have to adapt this to the cause, whatever in the market or position to this.

Rich (14:57): But you know, you, you kind of got your entry level cars and then you kind of go way up to sort of, if you want to go way up the Lamborghini's and stuff, but otherwise, you know, maybe your Lexuses and Jaguars and stuff, but for the value you're giving people, where would you position yourself? And she came back and said, Land Rover, like straight away. And I said, why? And she says, you know, they're known for quality. They're good quality cars. The Royal family uses them like they got prestige. And you feel like, again, value for money. So I said, okay, well, what do they charge? What do they cost? This is what I think they're about $80,000 to $90,000. So I said, okay. So if you went to a showroom and they said, well, all these are 80, 90,000, but we've got one over here.

Rich (15:33): That's two, $2000. Would you buy it? No, absolutely not. I think there's something wrong with it. And we applied that to her business. It's like, if you're charging yourself so low, people are gonna think, why am I going to pay for you? That you're not very good. Now the caveat to this, let's just touch on a second ago. This isn't about extorting people. This isn't increasing your prices for the sake of it. If you're already above the market, if you're pushing your luck or, or you're just right around where you should be, this isn't to say, you should increase your prices. But this is if you're uncertain about your pricing, if you could go up, if you should go up, but you're not sure, or, you know, you're working too hard for what you're earning and revenues. One of the reasons why it's possible to do it, but it has to fail. You have to be worth it. You know, you can't graduate college or enter the job market and straight position yourself as premium. You have to earn it. So in her case, I mean, she she's got all their credentials to back it up and she was massively undercharging. But you know, I have to have that caveat. I think a lot of people could easily misconstrue what I'm saying to say, just put another zero at the end of your price.

Nick (16:34): Yeah. You still have to have a quality product. I do think like what you're saying, a lot of people do undervalue what they're selling. It can hurt them. Just like you said. I mean, if you see something like you're looking at products on the market and you say, okay, these are all typically around this price point. And then you got one that's like way low. Yeah. Your first instinct is like, okay, well something's wrong with that? People obviously aren't buying that one. Why would they be so low? I think that's a very good point.

Rich (16:59): But the reverse is true too. If you've kind of got this poll and it's quite homogenous, then you've got one. This really expensive people go, Oh, what's that? You know, it's kind of like when you get, like, they can do this all the time in entertainment industry, you have the deluxe version, it's the same CD or DVD or whatever, or the VIP meet and greet for a concert ticket, you know? Oh, I pay more. I get more. And as long as you actually provide on the get more, because I just think the price has to be reflective of value. Okay. So you're either, well, some of the common options are you're going to be giving them more money. Like you pay me more and you earn more. I will, I will generate more money for you. That's worth it. If they, if, if they pay you 5,000 pounds and you generate 50,000, you've 10 X, what they paid you, that's a good return in anyone's book.

Rich (17:42): Or you're saving them time. If that's valuable to them, if they, if they're time poor, that's going to be worth a lot of money to them. Or you're giving them an experience. If you look at luxury brands, Rolex doesn't do anything that Casio doesn't do. Or in a lot of ways of Rolex is a worse product to own, because it's really expensive to maintain. You've got a high risk. Someone's going to try and steal it from you. Like there's all those kinds of problems with it. And yeah, it's a very reliable product, obviously, but it's not digital. You know, you kind of got all these issues with it. And yet you look at the price point on it. The people buying that are not comparing it to a Casio, they don't give a shit. They're buying it for something else. What's the value to them. The value isn't that it, it, hasn't got loads of features and buttons. It doesn't have the calendar on it. It doesn't sync to your phone. It doesn't do all that stuff. It's just, you're largely paying for the brands, the prestige, there's an experience that you're paying for. And that can be very, very powerful.

Nick (18:34): Something that I've been doing. A lot of the people that I follow on social media, they are heavy into the Gumroad products. And I've been thinking about getting into it a little bit, just like something small to throw up there. But I started downloading, I started buying some of these guides and seeing just like what people are putting out at like different price points. Like some of them, I see, just go fricking gangbusters. Everyone's sharing it. Like, Oh my God, this is the best. So good. And it's not that expensive. Whereas I've taken courses that are a couple hundred bucks. So I'm like, okay, well, if this is that good, then why is it at 25 bucks, 50 bucks when I'm paying for like a $400 course on the same topic. So I started buying some of them and I would encourage anybody who is interested in doing something like this, or if they're trying to sell a service or a product, if you have the capital to do it, purchase some of these courses and products and just see what it's all about, because I was very surprised some of the eBooks and guides that I've bought on Gumroad I would buy some for 10 bucks that were like, wow, this is really great information.

Nick (19:37): And there's some that I would buy for 50 bucks. And I was like, okay, well I've written a blog post. That is way better information than this.

Rich (19:44): Yeah, you're right. The thing about Gumroad, it's interesting because if you get the right product, the values unbelievable, you know, you start full education and it's actionable. It's like, you can read that and you can go in and a lot of money like instantly, and then you can pay more like you said, and get nothing. And the thing I think the thing about Gumroad is a lot of people use that as their lead magnet. So their intention, if on a lot of information, because it's get this, but then lead magnets are normally free, right? So it's kind of like if I'm paying for it, it goes back to what I said before. This isn't about extorting people. You have to provide the value. If I feel like I haven't got that value for money, I'm not buying from you again. So you've got more from me on that first sale, but then you've lost everything else.

Rich (20:24): Whereas the guy charging 10 and delivering unbelievable value, he's got a lifelong customer there, you know, and if they, if that's part of his funnel and then it ends in a really, really expensive thing, I'm much more likely to invest. But the thing that, like the thing that surprised about Gumroad is when you think about it is some of the things are closer to that $40 range, $35 has got $37, it's got really popular price point, and then you get it. Anything value aside value aside, just in terms of quantity. It's a really small amount of content that's priced at $37. Now, if you were to go into like a bookshop and get a real, you wouldn't even be on the shelves. Like, Oh wait, it would be $4.99. So Gumroad has really warped the expectations for costs. And I haven't really got an opinion on it. I think it's just a curious observation. And I don't know if that's because there's a volume and if you're at Barnes and Noble, then they're like, well, we have to sell at this price, but we'll sell loads of them. Or like you said, you, you, you kind of really in depth, blog articles, medium articles, like Twitter threads. Now you can get unbelievable amount of content and value. So the Internet's like, it's really interesting how that kind of sphere has just done his own thing with pricing.

Nick (21:36): The bookstore thing was something I actually was randomly thinking about. I was just about to buy something on Gumroad. Cause I was like, I'm curious, everyone was buzzing about it. So I was like, okay, could it be that good? But then I got to thinking, and I was like, you know, if I were to go to Amazon Kindle right now, I go to Barnes and Noble, I would have a hard time finding a similar book that would be this expensive or more expensive. I could get a whole, like 400 page in-depth guide on social media and it would cost me 10 bucks or I'm buying this 10 page PDF guide on Gumroad for 40 bucks. It's like, which one's the published author or the Gum oad guide is.

Rich (22:14): There's no standard, like some of them you get the writing is terrible. The information's lacking. It's patchy. Like, yeah. Like, uh, Oh, but you know, on what you just said, like yesterday I bought the Kindle version of David David Goggins book $4.99. I'm assuming there's going to be a lot of value in that book and I got it for less than a drink. Um, you know, it's, it's an interesting thing on the, on the pricing.

Nick (22:42): Yeah. That's very interesting. Well, anyway, kind of a side note, I feel like more, more of the products and services and the clients that you're working for are probably not as much in the Gumroad, they're selling their products and services on their site. I would imagine. What is your thought? We kind of touched on it a little bit, but like your thought of that perceived value, we talked about it in the sense where she priced it too low, that perceived value of your product is like, it's not even worth my time, whereas you could have that Rolex or whatever price point. And then the perceived value of it goes up where it was like, okay, maybe this is worth what they're pricing that everyone else has priced kind of medium to low and this product's, a little bit higher. So is that, do you take into account that at all in your strategy when you're working with clients?

Rich (23:25): Yeah. Yeah, we do. Um, it's finding that fine line. You know, I think the the first thing kind of what I said before is that you have to earn the right to price yourself, premium. Everything I say for the rest of this episode, that's, that's in the ground. Know that, but beyond that, yes. So, I mean, there's line between people can want something, but it just be completely out of their range. And I'll go back to the Lamborghini thing, or the the Rolex thing, not even, you know, a Rolex, you can find a credit card. Lamborghini is hard for most people to ever afford. Even if you really want one, it's not something you can get. Lamborghini is not going to go on the phone with you and say, no, you, you can get this. You physically couldn't afford it. You know, whereas a lot of other luxury products, luxury brands, and, you know, like iPhone, you could put in there and they are within the realms of affordability.

Rich (24:16): So in terms of the perceived value, dusk got a lot of premium brands do is perceived value. I mean, if you look at things like women's purses handbags and stuff like Louis Vuitton, Gucci. Technically the performance of that product doesn't do anything that a grocery plastic bag does. It carries your stuff. Okay. The only thing is the name on the brand. What it's made of. Largely that comes down to perception of the value of it. So the main thing is what are you providing people? But this also comes down to knowing your niche, if you know, who, what moves them. So I don't know if you guys are familiar with our, we've got a store in London who Harrods. You ever heard of this place? So it's this, it's a really famous department store. Like, it's a huge department store, and it's just a big tourist attraction.

Rich (25:02): Like it's unbelievably expensive. It's the kind of place you wander around. Just look at the price tag and go, Holy shit. Like, here's why in the middle of this place is, well, there's a couple of things. One of them is they've got like a hairdressing salon and a barbers and stuff. So you can just go in there and have a shave. They've also got like a grocery store section and there are people in there, like I'm not joking. It is around wall to wall with people doing their weekly food shopping in there. They know there's a cheaper shop down the road, and there's a high chance they're shopping in Harrods because they can say, I've got this at Harrods. And it makes them feel important and special. You know, they're not in there because they think this is what apples cost they're in there, because it means something to them that they can afford to shop there.

Rich (25:42): So if you know who you're messaging for, and I think that's the key thing. If you're, if you are going to have the people who are on that budget and they, they want to shop a Harrods and they can't afford to, they want that Lamborghini, but they can't afford it. It doesn't matter what you tell them about how good it is. They know how good it is. It just makes them depressed. And then you get the people who can afford it, or they could afford it if they push themselves or it meets their value, whatever that value is in front of people, that's just the experience, how it makes them feel. You know, I feel important and like, I've got a high status, then the messaging can, can get them there. So yeah, the perceived value is huge. And the way people really come on stuck with this is competition.

Rich (26:17): And I think it comes this, this idea of, um, there's a mental block that I see, which is a fear of not securing all new prospects. If I tell them it's that price there, then they're going to run away. They're going to find someone cheaper. And a lot of people will do that, but you're never going to get all the prospects anyway. And it's like the example I gave before about one of my clients now, who, when, when she increased her prices, it's this idea of you'd get to work with me. And I'm now much more confident about what I do. Um, it's hard to have that confidence when you are the bargain basement price, because you're the person people go to when they can't afford anything else. And yeah, someone may down the road may be cheaper, but maybe they haven't got the overhead you've got, maybe they've not got the experience.

Rich (26:57): And the qualifications like anyone, especially like Gumroad is a good example of this. You can come out on nowhere with nothing to say that, say it and sell it, but it's not good. You know? So w and then what if he cuts his costs again, next week, do you have to keep reducing? It is kind of a stupid game to play. You have to be aware of it, to know what you're up against. Of course you do, but it's kinda more keeper cursory glance on it. See how it's panning out. I mean, if you're in a sinking market, and then obviously, you know, if you're at that, I wasn't good example of that, you know, but there, there are like technologies come and go and stuff. And if you're in a dying niche, but that's fairly extreme, I think if you're just a service provider or product provider, and there's just someone cheaper, like change your messaging, change your targeting.

Rich (27:41): But the other thing is that there's really important way of overcoming. This is there's always someone who's more expensive than you too. So it's rare that you're going to be either extreme the cheapest or the most expensive. You'll probably somewhere between that. And we always look at the cheaper people and go, ah, look how expensive I am. The minute you find that one person who's more than you. It's such a weight off your shoulders. And you can say, Oh, I can charge more and still not be the most expensive. So now when someone says to you, why would I pay that? They've done it for path, you can say, yeah, but Jane does it for twice as much. So now, like it gives you much more kind of freedom with your messaging,

Nick (28:16): For someone who is undervaluing their products, or doesn't think that their product or service is worth as much as their competitors, what would be some tips or advice that you would give them to start trying to get more from selling their services?

Rich (28:32): So someone who's not confident about increasing their prices?

Nick (28:35): Yeah.

Rich (28:35): Yeah. I mean, the reality of it is, is there are people out there who won't, he won't even entertain something unless it's a certain price. Premium because they say, well, that's that won't last. That will break that's. Yeah. That's just not quite good quality. Even if it is, you know, the reality of it is a lot of physical products in particular, nowadays, they are good at lower price points, but it depends what you're selling. Of course, I think if you're selling like services, that is a significant difference. If you're a drop shipper and you're drop shipping something imported from China, I it's the same as you and I could both sell physically at the exact same service products. The only thing changing the price in there is really how we deliver the messaging. Maybe we changed the packaging, but it's the same product.

Rich (29:21): It's the same everything. But genuinely, if you're struggling through it, have a look around, try and find that person who is more expensive than you, because that will open things up. Like I said before, I think it's really important that people tend to focus. It's the human condition, I guess, to focus on the negatives and the negative in this instance is, look, everyone cheaper than me. Look at all these people stealing my customers, all these people doing what I do cheaper than me. Truth is some of them may be doing that, but some of them have to charge that because they're not getting business. They're not as good as you. They're probably threatened by you and your experience and your long client list. And think I have to charge this much. Just have any idea of competing with you. You know, you can flip the script on this and say, what's the positives of them trying to undercut me is because I'm better.

Rich (30:03): But if you find the person who's charging more, I think that that instantly is like flicking a switch for a lot of people. When they say, Oh, I've got much more headroom than I thought, but the price needs to be indicative of your value ultimately, and it's easier to start low and work up than to start high and come down because that's an admission of defeat or guilt when you come down. But if you start low and you start getting results of people or people have really good feedback for you, your product proves itself. It makes them feel good. It gives them the money back all the time. It's like, whatever it is it's supposed to do once it starts doing that, you can charge it a bit more and people will pay it because I say, yes, I know the value of this. And if increase in your price means you the most expensive, embrace it.

Rich (30:45): And that's the key point for me is if you increase your prices and your most expensive, and then you get kind of bashful about it and a bit embarrassed, like, Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize no one's going to pay you. But if you, again, look at the premium brands, there are certain things, premium brands are having common, particularly around how they message like one they're expensive for a reason. Rolex makes no apology for being expensive. That's a selling point. It's we're exclusive come and join us. If you want to. We went Panda. Everything about them exudes that premium, that exclusivity, their intention, not competing on price, or they're probably intentionally competing beyond the price so that they priced themselves out of that consumer market intentionally. But if you look at everything they do is really sharp. The copyright always without exception for premium brands is very concise, very succinct, very value driven, cheaper brands, always talk about the features.

Rich (31:38): This is what was included. Here's a long list. It's really boring, but we'll show you all the things we will throw in premium brands. Don't do that. It's you get to be with us. You can join our club and people love exclusivity. So yeah, like inexperienced copywriters, and these are the same thing in graphic design too. But the inexperience is to throw as much as you can make it messy for all the things that make people feel like they get in like loads for free, cheap, and the experience people do the opposite. They use a lot of white space. They use a lot of, you can feel the blank, send yourself. And it's fewer words. Talk about the benefits, how this is going to make you feel how your lives can be better from using this. Very succinct, very persuasive. So if you're, if you are find yourself that you're the most expensive, just embrace it and learn from those companies, how you can craft your messaging and your imagery, because people are very subliminally attuned to this. You can see two pictures side by side, and you'll immediately pick out the one you think is premium, just because of how it relates to other premium brands. So you can adopt that.

Nick (32:36): And it's, it kind of ties it back into what we were talking about at the beginning, the episode, going into it with a strategy. Like Rolex, their strategy is very much, we are a premium brand. And like you said, you get to come be with us. You're going to pay this top dollar, but you will get this luxury that no one else gets.

Rich (32:53): And the thing about luxury brands, by the way, one thing I recommend people do in market research. I haven't even got to buy anything, leave your credit card at home, but just go to some luxury shops, go to some premium car dealers and ask for a test drive, go to Rolex, go to some of the expensive, watch stores. Go to some of these premium stores and just see how they treat you. A lot of them they'll open the door for you when you get there. I visit impacted here was a couple of years ago and we went to the Tiffany store and there's a guy opened the door. There's no pressure to buy anything. Like they don't care. A lot of that brand is on that perception anyway. And people to experience it, people going away and telling people how nice it was to be in there.

Rich (33:28): So just look at how they treat open the door for you. Did they call you by your name or use a Madam? Are they pressuring you? Are they making you feel like you can't afford it like that scene in pretty women.

Nick (33:39): Get out of here!

Rich (33:40): Get out here. A lot of times, they're not a lot of the times they're making it really, really welcoming. And if you, if you do talk to them, they'll answer your questions. They'll offer you a drink, sit down. Do you want a glass of champagne? Do you want some juice? Do you want, this is not at all uncommon. You don't get that in cheapest doors. If you buy a Rolex, there's a guarantee with that. Watch you're not spending five, 10, 15,000 on a watch and then give you a six months warranty. Yeah, they're going to give you really good servicing on that.

Rich (34:05): Yes, it will cost money. That's the exclusivity, but you're a customer for life in their eyes. Even if you only buy one thing. So again, you can adopt all this stuff for your own business and say, well, what can I do to make people feel that even if it's expensive, what's going above and beyond. So the guys down the road may have the same service, but if they got the same customer service, are they making people feel as good as valued? Like, are they cultivating that relationship? A lot of them aren't doing it, but the people will pay for that.

Nick (34:32): Right? That's very big. And especially if you are trying to sell a product that is very high dollar, a high ticket item, the only way you're going to really be able to do that is if you are showing the value upfront and I'm thinking right now, I'm focusing a lot on email marketing and sales funnels and that type of thing. If you're not providing a ton of value in those emails, leading up to that sale, you're probably not going to get the sale you have to be providing. And I'm coming from a very information, digital information type standpoint here, but I need to be putting out great content week after week for those people. So they know, I know what I'm talking about. And they know when they were to buy a product for me, that my product is going to deliver. If I'm giving you all this stuff for free, even all this great information, tactics, shit, tricks, tips, whatever it is, I better be able to deliver on the paid product.

Rich (35:23): Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. The thing about the free one is it's interesting because the guys who are doing it really good at doing it really good and, and is paying off when people are happy to pay the money because they know, but then you get other people who say people don't value and there is an element of three to nine. If you get it for free, you know, I'll come back to that, but it's very easy to kind of get it wrong or you kind of think, well, I'm giving this away for free. It doesn't have to be very good, but if you always turn up and you put your best into it and it's good, and this comes back, I watch it a few times. You know that actually you have to earn this. So if you've got that knowledge and experience and something that you can pass on and you put that into your products, whether they're free or not, people will latch onto them. And you're right, if you, if you give them that value, they'll keep coming back.

Nick (36:06): Having said what you just said. There are a lot of people out there that are putting out very poor quality free products. So yes, you do have to provide a lot of value, but there's a lot of people out there that are setting the bar really low. So you can provide a lot of quality without putting in a lot of effort, I guess, is what I'm trying to get at

Rich (36:27): This is huge. And the thing is this is the pool of people. Then what you're describing is probably bigger than the pool of people who are really doing a really good job. People like you and I, and maybe we see a lot of the people who are doing a good job. So we feel that it's overrepresented. So we felt like, Oh, we're up against this, like this. Yeah.

Nick (36:43): You're looking at the bar like way up here, when really it's down here.

Rich (36:47): People, the people who would be finding your stuff, they're probably mainly seeing the guys on the lower end because there's more of them or they're more vocal or whatever. So you really stand out. And so this, I think that's another way of looking at it. You know, the mindset point of view is okay, this and the things that I can aspire to be, this is how good the bar is. And I want to get there, but I'm already better than all of these people. I'm already standing out above all those people. You know, it's just, it's very much in keeping with what's all about on price because a lot of people will say, I'm already better than all these people. This is where I'm going to go. So, um, yeah, it's, it's just very easy to look at the wrong things or put yourself in the wrong place. Inadvertently think, think you're somewhere worse off than you are.

Nick (37:30): Yeah. That's, I mean, you made a really good point there because that's exactly what I do. I look at the people that I admire and the people that I want to end up being like, or get to that level. But I mean, they're, they're way up above where I'm at right now. So I'm looking at everything that they're doing. And I'm like, well, I have to create that on the same level, that caliber of product. And they have teams of people helping them do it. So it's like, you feel like you're at a disadvantage,

Rich (37:55): They've got teams, they've got all those years of experience. They've already got this following. They've got all this feedback from previous products. Like it's the wrong comparison, but yeah, I do the same thing too. And it's quite disheartening, but then it's, it's motivating too. And you know, people talk about, uh, like saturated markets and, and this is a mindset, mindset shift I've had where you think, Oh, because I used to get really kind of despondent about that. Like, Oh, there's already someone else doing it. And then the mind, the other mindset of it is that just means it's a proven market. You need a tiny, tiny fraction of that market to have a successful business. And then you think, Oh yeah. Now I know who those people are there and I know who they're following. And then we talk to them like it's just different

Nick (38:32): And you can see what they're doing to know how to improve upon or, you know, what's working already. So now you can almost mirror mimic that in a way,

Rich (38:41): The visibility is unbelievable. 30 years ago. If you wanted to kind of get that insight into competitors, you'd about to have a mole in their company reporting back. Now, just one of them on Twitter. And you get to see what you're saying to them. You get to see what complaints they're receiving, what customers are unhappy with, what people wish they had in their products. Like it's just, someone's just put this transparency, filter on everything and we can just pair in and say, okay, well I've made this thing that you guys are all set. You want it here. It is. Yep.

Nick (39:08): Businesses are all about solving problems. And if you can look at a company and see what they're doing and the reviews and the comments, all that stuff, I was actually doing that for awhile. I was just, I'd sit there and go to like an app or I go to Google reviews and I'll just scroll through the reviews and look for people saying bad things about that company and see if you can pick up consistent. Like there was one that I was looking at. I wanted to start a business, very similar. And I was reading reviews on this company. And every single review was like, the product is pretty good, but the customer service sucks. Tried calling couldn't get in touch with anybody, tried doing this. Like no one helped me. I was like, okay. So if I were to deliver a very similar product and I was there for people and I had outstanding customer service, I would probably blow this company out of the water. And it's just picking up on like the small thing. It seems super subtle and you actually have to actively listen for it, but something very small like that you can find great opportunities for businesses and improve upon what's already working out there.

Rich (40:07): Yeah. And I think that's what Amazon did really well. You know, obviously everyone talks to Amazon, you know, is having every product and stuff and yeah, fine. But my experience with their customer service has been absolutely stellar. I always find they, they are very prompt. They'll either answer the phone quickly or they'll get back to you really quickly. And then they completely changed the game on refunds and replacement items. It's just like, Oh yeah, well, you have that, like in what feels like 10 minutes, you know, phenomenal customer service. And that's, I think why people could come back. Yes. They compete on price too. And they, they make it convenient because they've got everything in one place, but that customer service really goes a long way. And then when they're putting those small businesses out of business, a lot of those people had the opposite.

Rich (40:46): They were frustrating. If you had an issue, you know, it's very frustrating to have an issue. And the thing that, like what you're talking about, reading the reviews, the thing that blows my mind, and I think a lot of people don't seem to know this about Twitter is you can set up a search for what people are saying to a brand. So if you've got a competitor, you can set up the search that says, show me the tweets to this account, because a lot of people use Twitter as a complaint forum. You know, like, although Lowe's were about that, they don't really use Twitter other than to bitch at companies or ask because it's the last resort of customer service. It's like, I've not got through on the phone. I've, you've not answered my question. Twitter works. So you can just see. Right. Okay. Well, these are my competitors.

Rich (41:22): I'm going to have a search list of all the things being said to them. So then it's not what they're putting out is what's coming in, even if they're ignoring it. So then like you would just say, if there's this consistent theme, if the customer service, I can't get hold of you, this, this, this, and you can imagine this being really good for physical products to it, especially if you're in that sort of drop shipping space, which I'm not. But I just kind of imagine that if you know, what all those those negatives are in your messaging fixes a lot of that. But yes, I mean, you can just set up a search, so, right. What's everyone saying to my bank or to this clothing provider or whatever it is you do, even if you're a mechanic or you fix computers or you build websites or whatever it is you do, you've got someone doing the same and you can find out what people are saying to them. And I just think that's unbelievable.

Nick (42:09): Yeah. For anybody who's listening and they're interested in getting into their own online business or selling a product or services that is, I feel like a very overlooked, like Ninja tactic for finding great business opportunities and great business ideas. Because like you said, the information is there, it's the visibility's insane. And people will straight up tell you what they don't like about things. So there is a million products

Rich (42:34): Fix it. Yeah. And then because you fixed it and I use it before business fixes problems for people. Yeah. They will pay more. I've only recently started watching the US office, the American version of the office. I'm late to the party. For this episode that really stuck out to me. And I'm assuming everyone else has seen it. So I can talk about this episode, but where Dunder Mifflin's losing business. And so the sales guys go out to get more sales. Right. And there's the scene where they're in this meeting and one of the guys gets on the phone puts it on loudspeaker and it's ringing and it's ringing and it's ringing. They're still having that conversation. And the guy says, Oh yeah, you're, you're more expensive. It's like, okay, but what does customer service mean to you? Because that number ringing is your competitor.

Rich (43:17): It's also your new supplier. This is us. And he dialed and they answer on the first ring. We've got a bank that does that. We have a bank here and they, every year I haven't checked the past couple years, but certainly for a long time, every year, they are number one in customer service, number one every year, because they don't put you through all the menus. You're not on hold. You bring them. They answer within a few rings and it's a real person. And they just talk to you and everyone just fell into this bank.

Nick (43:43): You mentioned something that's very specific a couple of times in this episode and it is positioning. Now, this is something that I was struggled to wrap my head around in my mind. I'm not much of a copywriter at all. It's something I've been trying to study a little bit, but I've been very distracted with other things. I struggle with positioning myself on paper. Like if you're going to come to my website and read what I have to offer, I've a very difficult time. I'll stare at a page for fricking two hours trying to write two sentences. And it's very difficult for me. So I'm curious with your clients, how you teach and guide the positioning of someone's product and service.

Rich (44:21): Yeah. So really it comes back to what you said before. The business solves a problem, or is that a problem? So if you're a mechanic, for example, mechanic sale, I'm a mechanic, you know, fix your car. But if you said, you know, I make your car run the liability. So it gets you and your family safely from A to B. Now I feel reassured to use you. I feel like actually cars can be dangerous. I don't want it breaking down. I don't, I don't want them to go wrong. I trust you. If you do SEO, everyone in SEO says, I do SEO. Customers don't give a shit. Most people don't even know what SEO is. It's just some technical term. And it's just, you know, it's the thing that gets me is like a normal people spend all of our lives complaining about when you talk to doctors and they say, Oh, they said it in doctor speak.

Rich (45:04): And it just means this. And yet when you're in marketing, we do the same thing. Oh, we do SEO with the organic this, they must like, so if you're in SEO, don't tell people you're in SEO. What do you do when you're in SEO is you get people, a steady stream of relevant traffic to your website without relying on paid ads. That makes sense to people, Oh, I don't want to pay for ads. That sounds great. Oh, they're relevant traffic. Fantastic. Yes. Sign me up. That's tangible benefit. So you just solve this problem, you know, if you, um, whatever it is you do is like, I have a list somewhere of, of some examples of this, but it's all based on that same thing, you know, it's, it's, you don't build websites. It's the, it's a shop window, you know, it's like, we're pretty new online.

Rich (45:39): Or people can find you, even while you sleep to buy from you to kind of enter your circle. If you like, like, it's just, it's not what you do. It's who you're doing it for. What's the benefit of this. That's really what the positioning comes down to. What problem are you solving? And then actually solve it in their language. Don't just say, Oh, your problem is, you're not getting traffic. I do SEO. The solution to your, if your problem is I'm not getting any traffic and sales. Then the solution is we give you relevant traffic to make sales. It's not SEO like yes, SEO is the tactic. If you don't know what SEO is, you telling me you do it. I mean, it's not helping. So really it just comes down to like solve the problem, show them, you can take them from where they are now with that problem to where they would be without it.

Rich (46:22): And the realization, if they don't do it, they won't get there. Like the powerful sentence for me is if not now, when it's just like, look, you know, you've got this problem. You've just told me you've got this problem, but it's not the right time to fix it. Well, when will it be the right time to fix it? Cause there's always going to be a reason not to. It's never going to be perfect timing. What is he going to take for you to move? Sometimes they got a valid reason. I'll actually stop this things just happening. And as soon as that's done, like fine, but other times they'll say, Oh, you're right. Actually I'm procrastinating on this. It is important. That is the solution. And I don't want to still be here next year. So it's just kind of plan around in that arena.

Nick (46:58): One thing I heard and it really stuck with me. It was either on another podcast or a book or something that I was reading. And they said that you really need to fully understand the problem. And you need to be able to explain that problem better than the person that has it. If you can explain that problem. Like if, I don't know, maybe you are trying to learn like a new software or something like that. And you're, I don't know. Can't figure it out, but I can understand what problem you're coming from. I know what problems you're having with that software. I know every issue that you would ever encounter, I would have a lot better chance of positioning myself to you who don't even know the problem at its root. You just know you have a problem, but if I understand it better, when I come and say, Hey, I'll help you get this software issue resolved and we're going to do it by this, this and this. Like, you're going to trust me to know, because I'm basically inside your mind. I know what your problem is more than you do. That was something that really stuck with me. It's like really try to understand what problem you're solving.

Rich (47:58): Yeah. And this is why those Facebook groups we spoke about earlier on are so important because you can just join one of a niche, I think, and just listen, and they'll tell you, Oh, you know, these regulations are really hard and our business or this competition's really hard. Or, you know, the big one to pick one here in Europe, we've got GDPR. And then California has just got whatever California has got like that. Cause huge headaches for everyone. If you're the guy that said I can help you navigate that. Great. Here's my, here's my card, my credit card. So yeah. And a lot of the times actually, people don't really people don't consciously know what the problem is. They know what the outcome of that problem is and what they're suffering from, but they don't necessarily have to fix it. So the problem isn't like you said, if, if you say, I don't know what the right example of it is, but you don't want to rely on them knowing what they want to then find you.

Rich (48:45): Because one, as soon as they do that, if they Google you, they're going to find all your competitors too. If they say, Oh, I do need SEO, Google SEO. Well, they're not only going to find you, right? Yes. So, but you're relying on them knowing that's what the problem is. And a lot of times they don't know, they just know they're not getting traffic or they're not getting conversions. They're not getting the customers. So like you said, if you are listening to these people and you can know their problem better than they can, and you can go to them and say, we can do that for you. Your competitors don't exist. You've already positioned yourself that you're the guy.

Nick (49:18): What would be one last tip of advice, words of wisdom that you would want to give to anybody, maybe it's a three step or two step, or I don't know. However you want to give it something to do with mindset and positioning. Like if someone's trying to position themselves better online so that they can ultimately charge more, what would be just one or two things that they could start doing?

Rich (49:41): I think the first thing to say is don't be afraid to hire someone for guidance. I don't mean that in a really sort of self-serving come and talk to me, but I just mean generally, like, don't be afraid. It's not a weakness. It's not a sign of failure that you ask for help. If you think like even LeBron James still has a coach, like he's the best in the world at what he does. And he still knows, I need a coach. Like the best people still work with people. So don't be afraid to say, actually, you know what, you can't be the best at everything. So if you're building this really incredible business and it, and you think it deserves the success and people and your business should be solving a problem for other people too. Right? So you want to give it that best chance of success.

Rich (50:20): Don't be afraid to ask someone say, does this work for you? Can you help me reach the right people with this? Then more specifically to your question about mindset and what to do. I like to ask the question, what am I really providing here? So I bring this back to the, in the mechanic and the SEO examples, don't just say, Oh, I sell SEO, I'm a mechanic. It's, you know, if you're a mechanic, you're providing safety, you're providing what a legal vehicle, but you're providing safety to you and other road users and your family in that car. That's much more emotional. If your SEO, then your helping people get reliable stream of traffic without relying on ad, just go one step further. What are you providing? And I think that's the real thing. Even if you're just doing something that you don't think is at all, sexy, like if you sell mortgages and financial advice, like you're putting people's food on the table, you're giving them security that you're giving them peace of mind.

Rich (51:10): There's always an emotional angle. And it's always one step on from what you, this is what I do. This is what I really do. That's, that's where you kind of get into that. Um, promised, promised land of how you can start charging more. But again, it has to be predicated on you being good enough to actually warrant charging that. But also I think really spend some something about what you want your business to offer you. Like I said, at the very beginning of this people go into business and the business carries them away and you get swept along with it, but try and bring it back. Like, do you want more freedom? Do you want more time? Do you want more money? What's that look like? Do you need to start delegating? Do you need to start outsourcing certain tasks? Because again, you can't be the best at everything. Don't be afraid to do that. You know, you'll build something much better as a result of it. So yeah, there's a lot, I rambled a bit there, but there's a few things I think to answer that question.

Nick (52:00): No, I thought that was all great. I think that's a lot of really good advice. Where could people find you online? Whether that's social media, maybe they want to get in touch with you and hire you to kind of help them with their positioning. Where, where would you like people to go to find you at?

Rich (52:16): I need to remind myself of my Twitter handle here, my website is Crosshairs Marketing. So like crosshairs like through a gun scope, marketing.co.uk, and then my Twitter is @rich_w17, one seven. So you can find me there, I mean, I'm on Facebook and stuff. You can search by name, but good luck. Imagine there's a million of me. Um, but yeah, you can contact me through the website, Twitter, and then any links you want from there. I can, I can send your way, but yeah. Crosshairsmarketing.co.uk is the main place.

Nick (52:49): Perfect for everybody listening. All the links to get in contact with Rich will be on the show notes. So make sure if you need help with the links, make sure you head over to the show notes and you can grab them all there. Well, Rich, I want to thank you for coming on the episode. I know I got a lot of great information from you. I'm sure the listeners are going to be able to take and utilize a lot of the information here. So I just want to thank you for coming on the show and taking the time to chat with me.

Rich (53:14): Of course. Yeah. Thank you.

Nick (53:16): That was the interview with rich. I thought this was such an interesting interview and I thought Rich did an awesome job putting the thought around mindset into perspective. If you enjoy this episode, make sure you head on over to iTunes to leave a review. If you don't listen on iTunes, that's okay. Just leave a review on your favorite podcast app of choice. If you want to check out any of the links discussed in this episode or you want to get in touch with Rich, make sure you head over to the show notes for this episode. We're all that information can be found. The show notes for this episode can be found over at ninefivepodcast.com/episode14 and nine five is all spelled out. That's N I N E F I V E podcast.com forward slash episode 14. And that is the number 14. And I'd love to know what you guys think of the podcast so far, we're at episode 14, next week we're going to be at episode 15.

Nick (54:08): Uh, it's it's flying by, I'm having a blast and I hope that it's providing value to you. So I want to know if this podcast actually given you value. Let me know by commenting on the show notes for this episode or hop over on Twitter and shoot me a message. Let me know what you think of the Nine-Five Podcast. Are you enjoying it so far? Is there something you'd like to see more of, less of something like see differently? I just really love to know where you guys are at and what you think of the show so far. So thanks again for tuning in and I will catch you guys in next week's episode.

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Hosts & Guests

Host – Nick Nalbach

Guest – Rich White

Show Notes

It can be difficult to image that people would pay you for their products.

Even more than that, it can be tough to think that people would pay you a premium for the product/service you have to offer. That is because we, as entrepreneurs, can do a really good job at discrediting ourselves or convincing ourselves that what we have to offer isn’t that valuable.

The truth is, it may be extremely valuable to someone else who needs it.

In this episode, I got the chance to chat with Rich White of Crosshairs Marketing where we talk about mindset and positioning in online business. A few important topics that we cover in this episode are:


  1. Figuring out WHO your product is for
  2. Understanding the problem you’re trying to solve
  3. Relaying the soution to the problem in a way that resonates with your audience
  4. Pricing: How do you choose what to charge?


You can see how each step would kind of build upon the next.


1. Who is your product for?


Determining your WHY is important in any business. Figuring out your WHO is just as important. This becomes prevelant when you are trying to target and get more eyes on your product. If you don’t understand who you are speaking to, it can become difficult to resonate with them.

When you are figuring out who your audience is, start by creating a persona that you can image yourself talking to. Think about:

  • What does this person do
  • What does this person look like
  • What do they like to eat
  • Where do they hang out
  • What problems do they have

Really dive into what the person looks like and keep this in mind as you create your content.


2. Understanding the Problem


If you don’t understand the problem you are trying to solve, how are you going to explain your solution to someone?

Take some time to really understand this problem that you want to solve. Learn the ins and outs. Figure out the biggest pain points, figure out the littlest pain points. The more you know about the problem, the better you’ll be able to convince others that you have the solution.


3. Blowing The Minds of Your Audience


Something that I have recently heard on another podcast is that you should understand the problem better than the ones who have it.

Think about it, if you know the problem better than those who have the problem, you will most likely be able to describe the problem better than they can. That means you will be able to relate and mention things others may not have even thought about.

Then, when you start creating content, your audience is going to think that you are inside their head because you do a better job of explaining their issues than they can. If you can do that, they are highly likely to trust you and the solution you bring.


4. How to Choose the Right Pricing for Your Product/Service?


This is one of the first topics we covered in this episode, so you’ll have to listen in to get all the information, but this is one of the biggest struggles entrepreneurs face when creating their own products. So here’s a taste of what we discussed in the episode:

Changing your own mindset about pricing, value, and most importantly, yourself is the biggest hurdle to get over.

It can be really easy to descredit yourself.

Stop thinking about like “I want this person to buy my product/service” and start thinking about it like this: “They get to work with me/purchase my awesome solution.”


Another way you can think about it is by thinking about all the time that you have spent to learn what you are sharing. This works especially well with information products or consulting services.

Maybe you went to college to get a degree for a specific skillset or knowledge that you are now teaching or helping others with.

How much money and how much time did you spend to learn and develop the skills that you are now charging for? They are getting the information you know at a SEVERE discount compared to what you paid (in money and time) to learn.


We cover many other great points in this episode, so make sure you don’t miss it!


Links & Resources

Note: Some of the links listed below may be affiliate links. This means I will receive a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you choose to purchase through them.

Thank You!

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Nine-Five Podcast. Thank you so much for listening!


If you enjoyed this episode, please head over to iTunes and leave a review. Your reviews are what help get this podcast in front of more people!


Do you struggle with pricing your own products/services?

What issues are you having with finding the right price point?


Let me know in the comments below!


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"The value you provide to others directly correlates to your success. The more value you provide, the more successful you become. Focus on the value!"

- Nick Nalbach

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I am an entrepreneur and adventure enthusiast, looking to break free from the Nine-Five grind. I'll show you what has worked and is currently working for me, as well as what hasn't worked so well.

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