Episode 27

How to Get Your Website Seen by Google with SEO

by | Jan 20, 2021 | Podcast

We have discussed Search Engine Optimization (SEO) on past episodes, but this is often a very complex topic. In this episode, I’m talking with Daryl Rosser to try to get down into the basics of SEO to help you better understand and start implementing now so you can drive more website traffic.

Nick (00:00): How do we get more visitors to look at our website? Obviously there are things like social media and ad campaigns and good old word of mouth, but one of the most effective ways to drive consistent traffic month over month is through the use of SEO, or search engine optimization. This has been a topic on several episodes and something that many of the guests have brought up in regards to growing their own businesses. So this week I wanted to bring on Daryl Rosser to help us better understand what SEO actually is and how we can utilize it in our own businesses to help drive more traffic to your website and your business. Daryl has been wildly successful in the SEO space for several years with his digital marketing agency, Lion Zeal, and has just recently started another SEO agency that helps e-commerce businesses with their SEO campaigns and strategies.

Nick (00:48): Daryl has been featured on many amazing digital marketing outlets, such as Ahrefs, Search Engine Journal, and Mashable, for his knowledge in the SEO realm, and is also sharing a lot of great information on his YouTube channel as well. SEO can get very technical. So my hope is that with this episode, you'll be able to have a better understanding as to what it is and how it actually works now, because it can get technical. I did provide a glossary of terms on the show notes page for this episode, which can be found at ninefivepodcast.com/episode27. So if there are certain terms used in the episode and you aren't quite familiar with them, make sure you go check out the show notes page, and hopefully that'll clear up some of the questions you might be facing. Okay. This was a pretty lengthy introduction compared to what I usually do. So let's not wait any longer. Let's get the music going.

Nick (01:35): This is the Nine-Five Podcast. And I'm your host, Nick Nalbach where we get into the minds of entrepreneurs and people just like you. So you can start, build and grow your own online business.

Nick (01:52): Okay. Welcome to the Nine-Five Podcast. I'm really excited to bring on today's guest. Uh, my brother, who you'd recognize back in episode two, actually pointed me towards this guest and said he would be an awesome person to bring on, to talk about SEO. So today on the podcast, I have Daryl Rosser, Daryl, welcome to the Nine-Five Podcast.

Daryl (02:14): Dude. Thank you so much for having me on the show today. It's great to be here.

Nick (02:17): Absolutely, man. And we were just talking before we started recording this thing, you are 12 hours ahead of me right now at the time of this recording. It's 8:00 PM here. It's 8:00 AM there the next day. So it's kind of a weird time trip to me. I'm one day behind you right now. We're both talking on separate days. It's crazy.

Daryl (02:35): It's kind of cool.

Nick (02:37): So Daryl, why don't you jump in here and give the audience a little bit of an idea of who you are and what it is you actually do.

Daryl (02:44): Sure. So, as mentioned, my name is Daryl Rosser. And in short, I'm an SEO guy, which is super open-ended, but really that's what it is. I've been doing SEO now for nearly 8 years. I started out in the SEO space. I've been in marketing for many

Daryl (03:00): Years, more than that. Um, but rest of the, I started out doing sell SEO services to local businesses. You know, your, your, your roofers, your plumbers, that type of business that evolved into running my own websites. And that evolved into showing other people how I did that and creating content online and teaching people SEO. And then over the past few years have calmed down a little bit, every fit I am working on e-comm sites. Now I started up an e-commerce SEO agency about three months ago. I publicly documented how I built that up from zero to six figures in sales. And if I'm on and a half and I just do a little bit of everything, you have SEO, that's my passion. That's different. I really enjoy. And I just, I sell services for that. I teach people how to do that. And just all things SEO.

Nick (03:40): Yeah. I was picking around on your YouTube channel and you have a lot of awesome content. You built up a pretty awesome following as well, talking pretty much all about SEO and how people can take advantage of SEO and improve their own SEO. But one thing that I like to do with the podcast episode, if you haven't heard any of the episodes prior, or if we have any new listeners here, I like to ask all of my guests what their superpower is and by superpower, I mean like, what is the thing that you feel you are just the man that if someone has a question they come to you or you just, you feel like you're a rockstar at this one thing, what do you think your super power would be?

Daryl (04:15): I don't really know, which is isn't the best answer. I honestly, I don't know what I would say. My strength that is in business and what I'm doing is not usually like a single thing. It's more the fact that I have kind of a Whiff of knowledge in multiple areas. So for example, one thing that we're finding makes it really easy to sound like e-commerce SEO services is the fact that I actually on a sense sales, which is really, really weird for a socially awkward computer nerd. And then I actually really good at a technical side because I'm a socially awkward computer nerd. And then I also understand, I just have like a Whiff of knowledge. So I've been doing content marketing, I've created videos and things like that. So we'll have these, it's not really like, I'm the best at this one, single thing. Its the combination of knowing all these different things that combines into something that's a little bit unique to most people. So I guess in a way I,

Nick (05:09): Yeah, I mean, just like a well-rounded knowledge of the whole topic as a whole, I mean that's yeah, I think that's awesome, man. Now we brought you here to talk about SEO. We want to pick your brain and figure out how the hell we do this thing. So I guess to start let's get super basic here. Can you give the listeners an idea of what SEO actually is?

Daryl (05:31): Yeah. I mean, if you're an absolute beginner, it's essentially just get in more traffic that ideally would convert into sales or leads or something of value from the Google search engine or any search engine. Um, but usually people refer to Google. They could even be YouTube to be honest. So when someone searches for information or your products or your services or anything that may convert, then you want to get more traffic out of that. I don't see he do that by being higher for certain keywords as in phrases and words people search relevance to that, that is like the super beginner level, high level view of it. And an SEO, as in someone you hire for SEO would be someone that understands exactly how to do that. And that breaks out into multiple areas, which would be say, keyword research, which is identifying those phrases.

Daryl (06:18): People are searching to find services or whatever that you offer. It would be on page SEO, which is making changes on your website itself. It would be technical SEO, which is technical. So we won't go too much into that. And then there is link building, which is acquiring links from other websites to yours, which just basically act as votes. And it gives you credibility. If more people link to your website, then it's probably a good website. That's just the high level, all of SEO there. And obviously for certain businesses, this is super valuable because if someone's going online and research and for a roofing company, they probably want to hire a roofing company. Someone goes online and is such to buy furniture. They're probably looking to buy furniture so they can convert that very well.

Nick (07:01): Yeah. And now you mentioned an SEO, like someone that you would hire to do SEO or help improve your rankings on search engines. Is this something that you need to go out and hire someone? Or is this something that we can do ourselves?

Daryl (07:15): Depends. Um, generally speaking, and this is going to sound super bias because I am someone that sells SEO services. Um, but generally speaking, I would say, you'd want to hire someone. There is elements you can do yourself. So one of the things I mentioned or two of the things I mentioned, actually I mentioned keyword research and I mentioned on page SEO, keyword research is identifying phrases. You want to compete for. You want to rank for you once you focus on getting in front of. So when people search that your website is there, you can do that yourself. You may have to study a little bit, but you can do it yourself. There's tools that make that very, very easy. So you can do that. And then on page SEO is optimizing your content. So it's more search engine friendly. That can be, um, get hit in a certain length of content.

Daryl (07:56): It could be including certain words, so you have tropical relevance to that topic, things like that. You can do that yourself, especially today with this is incredible tools out there like, like Surfer shout out to Surfer, and you can literally just input your content. And I would just tell you, okay, include these words change these. So it hits thousand words or whatever. So they just tell you how to do that. So that's very easy when it comes to link-building you can do it yourself. It's just a lot that can go wrong. And it's quite pricey, even if you do it yourself. And then there is, um, what does a technical SEO? Probably not, but the good news is if you have a really small website, if you're a local business, something like that, or a small blog with 50 pages or less than a hundred pages of, and you don't have technical SEO issues anyway, in most cases. So you're okay. So you can kind of, but if you want to hit the big leagues, you want to rank for something that's going to make you some decent money, then invest in it. Like you would invest in anything else.

Nick (08:49): Definitely. Now one thing, and I'm sure you've experienced this being an SEO. SEO is not something that you can just pop on your website today. And then tomorrow you're going to be ranking number one in Google.

Daryl (09:02): I wish.

Nick (09:02): I think that's a very common misconception for someone who is completely new to SEO. It's like, okay. Yeah, I do SEO for me. How come? How come I'm not ranking now? How long does it typically take? Once you start, obviously it'll depend on the keywords that you're trying to rank for, but how long does it typically take you to start seeing results when you're, I guess trying to work on someone's website?

Daryl (09:25): I did a video on this a few days ago and I ranted for about 12 minutes or something like that. Just 15 minutes. And the whole video was basically just, it depends. And that was like, like 15 minutes of talking. Like we got to the end of it as like, so basically it still depends is the best I could really come up with. So here's kind of run with that answer. Yeah, exactly. But the short of what I was saying is that, well, yeah, number one, obviously it does depend. Usually you're looking in a region of months now, again, that that can vary massively. We have clients that want to rank in niches where they'll make a hundred grand a month if we get them number one. So that might take them two years based on them, starting out quite a smallish sort of website versus a local business that's already, that comes to us.

Daryl (10:13): And maybe you're already on page two or page three or something like that. Maybe three or four months, maybe, but it's in that region of, of months usually to compete for a decent keyword relative to that company. Um, obviously you can create a new piece of content and you can have that ranking. We're going a couple of weeks. Sometimes if your website is already in a great position and it's just that one additional piece of content is not super competitive, but the go-to is usually we'd say like four plus months. And if we signed a client, when I signed clients, I have them on 12 month contracts. And that's because I want them to understand that, Hey, you're going to see some decent results is going to take at least 12 months to fully see an actual ROI to see that it's worth investing. Maybe in eight months, it would be, it'd be decent, but 12 months gives us enough time to show that. But it still depends.

Nick (10:58): No. And I think that's, that is a really good approach because yeah, I mean you, if you sign somebody on a monthly contract, they'd come by by the, at the end of the month and be like, well, what the hell man? Whereas my rankings,

Daryl (11:09): They, they have like a bad month or something or a bad day. And then they will just hit you up and like, Hey what's my rankings like, I've done two months now. Where's the rankings. We explained this when we started, that's not how it works.

Nick (11:22): This is something I haven't really dove too much into. We've had episodes that we've talked a little bit about SEO, but something, if anyone was to go search, searching on Google for SEO, they'd probably find a lot of content around black hat SEO, white hat SEO, gray hat SEO. What does this mean? Break this down.

Daryl (11:42): I think even within like the community, there's like kind of different descriptions of what each mean, but his is the definitions I go by white hat SEO is squeaky clean as fins by the book is how Google want you to defend this almost. Um, not quite, um, because really doing that is just optimizing your website and promoting it and hoping that people link to it and most white hat SEOs don't do that. They also will do some form of link-building, which you would already want you to do, but I might've finished a white hat. SEO is where you follow Google's practices as best as you possibly can is pretty much what it is. Great hat, gray hat SEO is where you kind of bend the rules a little bit. And rather than trying to naturally acquire links through just creating great content and trying to promote your business and hope that people link to it or during it, it kind of cleaner ways. Why not just pay someone for it?

Daryl (12:32): Why not just email some website to say, Hey, can I just give you a hundred dollars to link to my website? They're going to say yes. And in a lot of cases anyway, and it's just way easier as we're quicker. So gray has just kind of bending the rules just a little bit. It's not in an unethical way, which I think is the important part it's never really unethical about. You're just giving them a hundred dollars. It breaks Google's rules, but it's no ethics broken there. Black hat SEO is when you get into kind of the unethical side of SEO and potentially like illegal side of SEO, if you want to go that far. And that's where people will hack a website and include a link to their own website. And there's obviously multiple vendors and effort you can buy from that, do that sort of thing. It's not something I'm personally into, but that was kind of the black hat side also on the links. But also you have a negative SEO where people will build toxic links to someone else's websites. You try and bring their rankings down rather than bringing, their own clients up and their own website up. That is again, firmly on the black hat side and not something I'm personally a fan of, but some people do that sort of thing.

Nick (13:32): That's something. So I've heard a couple different things with, I think it was John Mueller. I'm not sure how you pronounce it, where he was talking about. I think that exact topic where someone could basically send bad links to your website to try to bring your site down. Have you seen that happen in real life? Like have you seen someone's site negatively impacted because of that, he claims that that doesn't, that Google doesn't pay attention to that they just ignore those links.

Daryl (13:58): Yeah. Everyone has different opinions on this. Uh, but I've seen in any competitive niche to get in those links and yeah, they can have it have an impact.

Nick (14:06): That's interesting. Yeah. So, I mean, really we, we want to live in the white hat to gray hat range. If you're paying for links, us not necessarily a bad thing, but you do want to be making sure that you're paying for quality links.

Daryl (14:19): Well, the, the thing is if you buy a link, nobody really knows that you bought that link. Now, if you do it the right way, when, when we buy links, um, which will have the same criteria as it will naturally acquire that link as an full double check that the site has a decent farty level. I won't go into what that means, because I think we'll be diving into, it'd be a 10 minute discussion, but you want to see check. It has like a decent authority level has like real traffic goes to website and that it's trending up, not down. So the traffic is progressively increasing or just steady not dropping because if it's dropping, then there's sign. That's a low quality website. So we check things like this. And then beyond that, if you're paying for it, a big fan you want to check for is that it doesn't say that you pay for it.

Daryl (14:59): So if it says at the top of it, this is a sponsored post. Well then that's all, that's a giveaway that you paid for it. But if you buy an a say, what we call a guest post, it's not really guest post. Then what we'll do is we'll write a thousand words of content. We write this ourselves for their website and we have this under like a random bar for accounts. So it's not our names. They don't know who wrote it. And then we include a link within this and nowhere in the page. Does it say that it's a guest post and nowhere on a page? Does it say that it's a sponsored post? So there's no real differentiator. The only differentiator it could be the quality of the site, but again, we make sure we focus on quality sites, also.

Nick (15:36): Right? Okay. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Okay. Can you kind of walk me through the process? We kind of laid the foundation of what SEO is and how we start getting ranked. It's obviously keyword research, the back link building the on-page SEO, all of the stuff we just talked about, but now can you actually walk me through a process that you take to start ranking for a given keyword? Like what does the keyword research look like all the way to how you start actually getting those backlinks

Daryl (16:08): First things first, is obviously figuring out what exactly you want to rank for. And this is where it's kind of hard to answer, but let me explain. So what I would normally want to do is to rank for what we call bottom of funnel keywords. Bottom of funnel is something that someone will search. That's going to directly lead to a inquiry or a sale or something, depending on what the businesses, if it's e-commerce, then we want to rank that the category pages and their product pages, because if someone's searching for, I don't know, buy an iPhone, then they're probably likely to buy an iPhone. If it's almost not just to buy a laptop or specific laptop models, they're probably likely to, to make a purchase of that. So that is what we call bottom of funnel. It could for a local business, it could be someone searching for a roofing company.

Daryl (16:52): Roofer in London and they're looking for a roofer, in London. So that's like a bottom of funnel. It's the opposite of that. Obviously it's top of funnel, which is kind of more informational related keywords and searches. So you have content on your blog or something like that. Then that'd be that top of funnel. Now this changes, if you don't have a site that is making money from bottom of funnel, so you could be an affiliate website where actually main keywords are going to be best-something in most cases. So it was like review type sites. So someone will search, what is the best gaming chair? Well, then that's going to be your main focus, but you just need to identify what is that main focus? What are those types of keywords that are going to make you the most money, then you need to do the actual keyword research to figure out, um, what are the actual keywords you want to rank for?

Daryl (17:36): There's two ways of doing this, but what I would suggest is pick a seed keyword. A seed keyword Is going to be a phrase, basically that is a good starting point. So if you want to promote gaming chairs, then you could just gaming chairs as your keyword. If it's an affiliate site and you're reviewing gaming chairs, and best gaming chairs would be your key watch from there. What I'd like to do is just use Ahrefs. I'm actually wearing on a t-shirt and go into the top 10 ranking sites. So go into that keyword Explorer from in the keyword best game and chairs. And it's going to list a top 10 ranking websites. And then I basically just go into say the top three of those and grab a list off the organic keywords. Isn't that a list of all the keywords that they're ranking for that could be a thousand to fast and free, fast, and just on that page for each of those websites.

Daryl (18:25): But that gives me a massive list of all of those keywords and what we used to do, which absolutely sucks was this manual process called keyword mapping. Keyword mapping is where you go for a say, okay, this keyword will be on this page. This keyword will be on this page and so on. And it's basically the way you do this is each topic. You basically have different topics. So it used to be like a keyword per page. That's old hat. Don't do that. So you have a bunch of keywords for each topic. So for example, if you are ranking for the best gaming chair, then you probably just have all the related to best gamer chair, gaming chair reviews and stuff like that. All on a single page, that could be a hundred, that could be a thousand keywords. And then you have another page and you look at those competitors.

Daryl (19:06): What other pages do they have as well? So you want to check all of them and maybe they have another one for, I don't know, best gaming monitor or best gaming. I don't know something else. Um, and that topic. And then you want to map that to what page is going to be on essentially. So I use a tool called Keyword Cupid for this, is that very new? And they're still figuring out the kind of the user interface, but it was really, really good. And that basically what does.

Nick (19:29): Keyword Keeper?

Daryl (19:31): Cupid like couples, you know, Cupid.

Nick (19:32): Keyword, Cupid. Okay.

Daryl (19:34): Yes. And that basically does that for you. So you just give them that list of 3,000-5,000 keywords, whatever it is. And they just go through that and they automatically tell you, okay, these ones here go in this topic. That's one page is once he had gone another page, these will go on another page.

Daryl (19:51): Just make that little bit easier for you. Oh, that's pretty neat. Um, AI or whatever. I don't know how they do it. I don't know something fancy that I understand that magic in the background. Yeah. All I know is that you press a button and it's a magic happens in it done for you. Perfect. But yeah, that's that, so that gives you, okay. Now you have a list of all the pages you need to create. And then you have a list of all the keywords for each of the pages. Now we go into the on page SEO. And, and before that, I guess you have, you kind of have to prioritize those keywords and decide which ones you want to focus on and which pages you want to create. That's a little bit of just like business knowledge. Like if you know your business, you should probably know which ones are going to make you the most money to looking at it.

Daryl (20:34): Beyond that you have the search volume, which is the number of searches every month for that keyword. And then you have the difficulty in a way I don't really like keyword difficulty scores. They suck, but you can see the authority of the sites that rank at the top. And if those sites in Ahrefs. Ahrefs uses DR domain rating and your need really to understand that it's just a score from zero to a hundred, but essentially if all the websites in the top 10 are DR 60 and your website is DR 30, then you're not going to compete. It's simple as that. So that's kind of a beginner approach to, to competitive analysis at that point

Nick (21:08): Thinking about it in that aspect, when you go to start trying to rank someone's site, you're picking out the keywords. If all the keywords are a lot of the keywords you're finding are, I dunno, the DR 60 sites are up on top of Google, I guess. What, what primarily are you looking for when you're trying to rank a, a smaller site or a site with a lower DR. What, is there a certain metrics that you're looking at within those keywords to say, this is the keyword that I want to rank for? Or is it just like, I like that keyword. That's what I'm going with.

Daryl (21:38): Okay. So terms of competitiveness, the client site itself, or our own website itself, we'll have a certain DR when we started off again using domain rating, I keep giving shout outs to Ahrefs. Okay. Um, but so if the website itself is say DR 36 36, and the competitors are ODR 60, well, I'm going to eliminate any, any key words that the competitors are basically way above us. So there's no sites that are like DR say, maybe 42 or so, like a little bit higher ranking in the top 10. You just need one where there's no keywords where there's just one, there all is keywords like that. Just get rid of them because we're not gonna have to compete against them. We may later, but we're going to have to build a lot of links. And that's where the link building aspect comes in later. So I'm going to find one, I'm going to find multiple keywords where there's at least one site and a top 10, that is a similar DR rating to where we're currently at.

Daryl (22:30): And usually going to find a few of these. And they're usually going to be like long tail as a smaller site. Long-tailed meaning there's like 3 or more words or so in that keyword. So best gaming chairs is going to be competitive. That's already three words, but as a keyword, it's not really a long tail at that point. So a long time it could be best game and chairs under. I have no idea how much a game chair costs. I'm under $50 under a hundred dollars. I love this example, but something like that. So it's like a longer tail version of that. So that's less competitive at that point. So then you can compete for that. And in terms of how do you decide? Well, it depends on the business. Some cases easier than others. We like to look at, if it's an existing website, we like to look at the existing rankings. That helps.

Daryl (23:13): So if you're already on page two or three or four for this, then sure. Why not? Let's focus on that. We take into consideration the search volume. You can also take into consideration, the, uh, the cost per click data. So if people are paying $5 a click to, to, um, for ads on this keyword, then they're probably making money off of this keyword. Right? So things like that. And usually we don't e-commerce today. So it's actually really easy because we know the business or at least our client knows the business. So we just ask them what, what keywords and what services make the most money. So that makes a little bit easier. Right? Okay. So

Nick (23:46): Then we got our keywords. We're starting to build the content around these sites.

Daryl (23:50): You got your key words and then the content. Now, honestly, this is actually really easy. So number one, the first thing you need to know that honestly, a lot of SEO's they're narrow still, so messing this up. So this is good for anyone get into it. You weren't a check the searcher keyword intent. What that means is that if someone searches for referring back to that example again, best gaming chair, what is most likely going to rank if you such that now, which I'm not doing, but if he did, then it's most likely going to be the top 10 websites are all going to be a review Blog posts. Is going to be a, a long detailed review, maybe three to 5,000 words or so I'm guessing review. And what are the top 10, 20, 30, whatever gaming chairs. Now, what if you're someone that sells gaming chairs that isn't your keyword, because the intent of your page is selling them, not reviewing them.

Daryl (24:44): So you're not going to have to compete against them. However, if you check the keyword gaming chair or especially buy gaming chair and everyone's going to be selling them, so you just want to double check first, what is the intent of that keyword? You can do it by searching and checking what is ranking and miss e-commerce. And it's, e-commerce intent if it's reviews and it's review intent and so on, and just match to topic content than just ranking. That is a really, really simple piece of advice. But a lot of SEO's don't even understand this yet. They're still just creating content randomly and just hoping they can rank. And it doesn't have had a lot of difficulties in the past,

Nick (25:16): The searcher intent, that is something that I've really tried to focus on and really pay attention to, like, what is a problem someone's trying to solve when they're getting into, when they're going to Google to type it's. I dunno, it's often overlooked, but really, if you want someone to click on your link, or you want someone to go to your website, whether it's ad, SEO, organic results, no matter what it is, it's got to meet the need of that person searching. So I, I agree with that. That is such an awesome tip right there. And like you said, it's simple, but often overlooked. Yeah,

Daryl (25:47): Seriously. And also Google, once you rank the site that helps people out in the best that, so they're happy to continue to use the search engine and they're happy with the result. They're not going back and clicking on another side and another site and another site. If they find the solution, that's a good fit. So yeah, that's the first thing beyond that. Honestly, you don't need to be a wiz at this anymore. You can just use Surfer. And I already mentioned them earlier surferseo.com and

Nick (26:09): Yeah. Talk about that a little bit. What is Surfer SEO? So

Daryl (26:13): Essentially you would just write your content inside of the content editor, as you tell them the key wet firstly, and then they give you a list of a competitors that rank for that keyword. And this is where you matched your intent. So you find all the ones that are in the top 10 that are relevant to the type of content you're creating. So again, if you're creating review posts, then just make sure that all the ones that you selected on the, on that first page are also review posted is happens to be one in there that, that isn't for some reason than just on ticket from our list. And what they'll do is they will run some data, basically and say okay, this site in position, number one has 5,000 words of content. Position two has 5,000 words of content. Position number three has 5,200 words of content and using all that data, they'll give you the average.

Daryl (26:58): Okay. Based on this, the average is this for this number of words on the page, but actually that's just one of like 200 plus different factors. They look at it. They also tell you how many times to include the actual main keyword itself. It's how you, how many times to include partial keywords, they'll tell you how many, what are the different phrases that you need to include on your page to have topical relevance? As in just having a, for example, if you rank it for like phone reviews, again, I got the phone next to me. Then you probably want to mention maybe the camera. You probably want to mention the, I don't know, some chips I'll speed or other all apps you can have or whatever like that. So if you don't mention that you have a review of a phone and you don't mention a camera, that's probably not that good review. So by, by mentioned that you hit topical relevance. So you, you actually relevant enough to that topic. Well, Surfer will tell you all the phrases need to include how many times to include them and all these different factors based on what is already that based on the competitors, that ranked best.

Nick (27:54): That's crazy. So it's taken, they're taking what they know is already working and just giving you that information and saying, here's what you need exactly. Do this. And you'll have a much better shot.

Daryl (28:05): Yeah. It just makes it super easy. And it's based on your keywords, because what has changed in the past couple of years or so is that it's no longer the same people used to say that if you just do, if you include the keyword X percentage of times, relative to how big your content is, then you'll rank and that's not correct anymore. It's different for absolutely every keyword. Some for every, some keywords you can do more, some keywords you have to do less and so on. So Surfer just, just takes all the effort that just tells you exactly what to do. Based on data. You, I would know a little bit more of an advanced step rerun this. If you do this, then rerun this every, every three months or so, because it may change if the top 10 sites change, then I've seen the data changes.

Nick (28:45): Interesting. Okay. Yeah. For, for everybody listening, any of the tools and links that we discussed and Daryl mentioned a couple, you mentioned Ahrefs, a couple of times surfer SEO. I'm going to put all the links to these tools in the show notes. So I'll make sure if you hear us talking about it or want to come back and check later, just go to the show notes page, and you can find all the links to these tools we're talking about. No, that that is really cool. Actually. I think it was, my brother mentioned Surfer SEO. I think he like heard you talking about it on like one of your YouTube videos or something like that. So he pointed me towards it. So I was digging into it a little bit, but I didn't quite understand exactly what it did. So that, that sounds pretty insane. It sounds like it's pretty intelligent.

Daryl (29:24): Yeah. It's really, really smart. Cause normally you would do this manually. So you can imagine going through each page and grabbing all this different information and run it over spreadsheets and scripts. Definitely trying to figure it all out. Or you can just put it in Surfer and about 30 to 60 seconds later, the data's done and have a recall tool. So there's two tools I recommend using if you're kind of a beginner to SEO and you want optimize your content, number one will be Surfer's content, editor, and in Surfer's content editor, You just paste your content into there or write your content into there from the beginning. And they give you a score from zero to a hundred. I think it is based on how good, how well optimize your content is. You never going to get a hundred, but you're going to get pretty high at least.

Daryl (30:04): And then it's tell you all the words to include how many words of content it should be, how much time should include the keyword. If your title is optimized, they tell you like everything. So that's really easy if you have an existing page ready to have another tool, which is their audit tool. And basically you would just search your keywords and then click audit next to your site. And it will just tell you, get again, give you a score and tell you what the changes they're making, give you a D the problems F like that. So they just, it just makes it really easy. And that tool, I don't know how much it costs, but I think it's like 30, $40 as I'm going to this. It's pretty cheap. It's really insignificant compared to hiring someone else to do that,

Nick (30:38): Right? No, for sure. That is, that's really cool. I'm going to check that one out actually. Cause that's, I've seen a couple, like some of the tools have like a content analyzer built in. Yeah. But I'm not so positive as to how accurate those are

Daryl (30:56): And stuff have them. And yeah, I would say that they're terrible,

Nick (31:01): So does Surfer, does it implement or does it integrate with something like WordPress or do you just build it in Surfer online and then you just copy and paste the information over to WordPress? How does that?

Daryl (31:12): I've never actually used it, but within the last month, I think they released a WordPress plugin. And so you can actually do this inside of WordPress. Now, the way we always did it was inside of Surfer's content editor and just kind of copy and paste it. But I, yeah, they have a WordPress add on now. Sorry. Plugin. I haven't tried it, but I presume it works well.

Nick (31:31): Oh, cool. Okay. So now we have our content. We found the keywords. We have our content now, I guess before we go on to the next step, how often do you think we should be posting this content? How often you think we should writing new content, does the consistency matter when it comes to ranking and increasing your search rankings?

Daryl (31:50): I'm less concerned with constantly posting content, but it depends on the, on the, on the type of website. So that's the important part. So if you have a local business, like what sort of local businesses is writing content every week? Cause having a blog is just ridiculous. Like, no one's going to do that. So it's not really needed for e-commerce. I probably suggest doing it, but it's not that important for e-commerce. We like to focus on again, I mentioned bottom of funnel. So we want to focus on this category pages and product pages, obviously for e-commerce you're going to have a thousand pages anyway, just for products and categories on a small site. The smallest sites we're working with are in the region of 800 to a thousand pages. So that's small other sites may have 10,000, 12,000, so they don't really have it a site size issue.

Daryl (32:37): Um, so that's, that's okay if you're review site, what I would do like an affiliate review site, something like that I would, and even blogs, I probably want to get a decent amount of content out. If I'm launching a new site, I want to launch the site with know maybe 30 plus pieces of content on the low end. Sorry. Okay. Possible blog posts or pages. It doesn't, there's no real distinction between the two. Um, but like 40 plus pages of content just to launch the site. So it's not bare bones when I'm launching it. And then in that type of site, I'd probably want to be expanding the content, but I don't think it really matches so much. The, the reason I want to do that is because it allows you to expand the keywords and continue to generate new traffic. Uh, so that's kind of how I'd approach that.

Daryl (33:16): The other thing would be what is important is supporting pages and supporting pages. Uh, how do I put this in an easy way? Okay. So if you just have let's use my site. So I have, I have an SEO website, I would ask you a block. And if I suddenly created a page that was like, what is the best laptop? And is it going to be posted what is the best laptop for, for students? So as the best laptop for whatever work. And then I tried to rank that page probably wouldn't work. The reason it won't work is because I have an SEO website. And what does that have to do with laptops? I mean, it's very, very loosely related. So what I would need to do is create additional pages of content on my website that are relevant to that overall topic of laptops.

Daryl (33:57): So technology will have, we want to put that. So we call the supporting pages now Keyword Cupid will kind of do that for you. Cause I mentioned before that, if you do a check off your competitors, all the keywords across their entire site, then you basically going to do that anyway, but you need to have enough, enough supporting pages. You have enough content around that topic to be able to rank for that topic. And for, for some keywords, you Surfer working on another tool for this as well. So that's not even out yet, but they show me their demo. I know, show me the example for if it was like mattress reviews. And if you search mattress reviews in their tool, it says, it says that you need to think 500 pages to have full relevance to this topic, which is not. So this is insane, right?

Daryl (34:38): Yeah. So obviously it's a very big topic, but the websites direct best have these five hundreds of pages, I think maybe, maybe a few hundred of them, at least most of them have those same pages. So if you really want to compete on that level, you really need to have a few hundred different pages, which is probably going to be different types of mattress reviews. So you have the overall masters review on, then you have maybe we mattress reviews and King size mattress reviews. And you have like, I don't know, I don't know anything about mattresses. I don't know why I got into this like soft or hard rr whatever. And then you have, um, the

Daryl (35:08): Actual brands or then you have the specific product number or product name or whatever within that as well. So obviously that can be hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds, but if you really want to rank for that big keyword like mattress reviews it is, well, you need them. Now when you getging more specific, you need to go for those longer tail keywords, you're going for those less competitive keywords. Obviously you need less pages around that topic because it's, it's less competitive. It's easier. And it's a more narrow topic,

Nick (35:33): Right. Would you say that that, that best mattress reviews, keyword that you're ranking for, would that be kind of like a pillar content where you're pointing all these supporting pages? Like you're linking all your supporting pages to that main,

Daryl (35:46): Not necessarily you need to exist in the website and for internal linking, which is a good point as a really, really important factor these days. You just want to do it where it is, which is where it makes sense. That's the easiest way to put it. We can get more technical. And the approach I use for that is basically shout out to Keyword Cupid again. They, they have like a little map thing when they tell you what the different pages to create. And they kind of link them between each other and show how relevant each one is to each other. And then,

Nick (36:13): But now like Google is smart enough to say, okay, you have this page that's best mattress reviews. And then I got this other one that says like the softest mattresses or the hardest mattresses.

Daryl (36:24): Yeah. They can see that you have like 500 pages on your site, all about mattresses.

Nick (36:28): Right. Okay. That's where I wasn't sure it is. The link need to be pointing there to kind of draw that conclusion for Google.

Daryl (36:33): I mean, they're going to be linked in some way, but not directly one-to-one. All 500 pages linked to just one single page, but there'll be

Nick (36:42): In a way. Right? Okay. No, that makes sense.

Daryl (36:45): Okay. That means you have all the content in place now, which is good. Now, depending on the website, the type of website that you have. Technical SEO, I would have probably started with this and done this kind of at the same time, a technical SEO is where you make your website more friendly to a search engine, bots and crawlers. Now, what does this mean? It means that you will have to Crow trillions. And as I think of web pages, which is a lot, so they only allocate a certain amount of resources to crawl on a website so that doesn't directly translate it to number of pages, but this is an easy way to put it. So we can say that they allocate that they're going to crawl a thousand pages on your website. Well, what if your website has 4,000 pages? Well, then you have an issue because only a thousand of them at a time I'm going to get crawled, which would be some are going to get left out.

Daryl (37:34): And some, maybe won't get updated from months at a time, which isn't ideal. So technical SEO is how can we maximize that brawl budget? Those resources are allocated on us and what can we do to make, take advantage best off that quote budget that we have. So for example, one very simple thing is to speed up the website. If you speed up the website, then they can crawl faster than you have less kind of resistance to that. The other major part of it, which is mostly what we're doing is what can we delete? Well, can we get rid of Woking, block them from crawling just to save the resources altogether? So if you're an e-commerce store, we're going to find that there's maybe 20% of that pages just have no traffic, like absolutely no traffic whatsoever. So why we wasted crawl budget on having them crawled when they don't rank for anything, their not intended to rank for anything and they're just junk pages or products that never sell.

Daryl (38:25): So we can just delete them altogether or just block them from being crawled and robot.TXT file again, maybe a little bit complicated there, but that is essentially what technical SEO is. If you have e-commerce, I'd recommend it. If you have big content sites. If you're trying to rank for mattress reviews, you got 500 pages. So I probably go ahead and optimize, um, technical SEO for that. If it's a local business again, you don't need it. It's a small maybe 30 page website and it's a blog and it's like under a hundred pages, probably under a thousand, really you can stretch it, your okay. Uh, but if you're getting close to like a hundred pages, I just do a little check of it. It's not difficult. Just double check that there's no like site speed issues that is now mobile issues and that you just don't have a bunch of junk content indexed. So if you have a page that has no intention of ever ranking for anything, then just, you can just No Index that. Or you can just block robots from, from accessint that altogether that's technical. Last year, I tried to simplify a little bit, cause it can get really, really advanced, but hopefully explains it beyond that. It's a link building. I think we covered everything else.

Nick (39:24): Yeah. That all sounds good. Technical obviously can get very technical. So I think you did a good job of keeping it very high level. That's where you were saying, having someone that you could actually hire as an SEO to come take a look at your site and kind of help you with that is probably going to be one of the more important steps.

Daryl (39:43): If you have a website that would suffer technical issues, right? Yeah. So if it's an e-commerce store and they're taking it seriously, they're trying to rank for something and make a bunch of money through organic search then. Yeah. I mean, again, I'm biased because that is literally our main selling point. That we're really good at technical SEO when we sell to e-commerce, but that's also fulfilling their needs. You know, we we're, that's our main selling point because of the biggest needs.

Nick (40:05): And now we get into backlink building, which is

Daryl (40:08): A massive and very controversial topic.

Nick (40:12): Yes it is. So I'm, I'm curious to get into this with you because it's something that I've really struggled to do. I've I've done the guest posting, I've reached out for backlinks. I've tried to pay some people for backlinks done those aspects and I've not had a whole lot of success. So I'm really curious what your process kind of looks like when it comes to backlink building.

Daryl (40:35): Okay. First things first most people when they do link-building they, they just guess, right. And the same thing with, I mentioned Surfer earlier. When you use Surfer, they look at data and they tell you, based on these top 10 ranking websites, here's what you need to do. Here's how you need to optimize your content. However they do that. And then they go to link building and they're just like, all right. So let's do a few guest posts, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and just kind of guess randomly. And there's no real strategy behind it. What I like to start with is what we call a link gap analysis. And this is essentially what Surfer does, but it's a little bit more manual. And what we'll do is the same approach. Approach really will grab the top three ranking competitors for this specific keyword you want to go after.

Daryl (41:17): And then we're going to look at their backlink profile. So we're going to look at how many links do they have. We'll look at this in two levels. We look at it. How many links do they have to the page itself? And how many links do they have Site-wise to the overall website? And that gives us indicators, for example, they may have five links to this page, but they have 500 referring domains at different website linking to those overall on their site. And what that means is that's the average sort of range about five to 10, say to the page. Well, you're one of about 50 links to that page because this unnatural your competitors don't have that. It looks weird. So you want to build in that range of like five to 10 and then your other links we'll build them to other pages on your site and an internal link to them.

Daryl (41:55): As you mentioned, link from that page to page one and rank on your own website. So thats one thing I'm going to look at the other family like to look at is what is the strength and what is the relevancy of those backlinks. So how do I make this simple, um, what does use Ahrefs Domain ratings And even now people probably don't understand what that means if their beginners, but Domain Rating, again, is that score from zero to a hundred? I'm measuring the authority off that website. Now, the way we use this is we'll look at their back links and we'll say, okay, what is the domain rating of that website? And okay, some of them will be like 30 40 zero, one 60, whatever. And we'll basically break that down into what is the average across the competitors for each segment.

Daryl (42:35): So for example, how many of those links are DR zero to 10? How many are DR 10 to 20? How many of 30 to 40 and so on? And that pretty much gives us a plan of, Hey, we need about 16 DR, 60 plus links. And it just gives us an idea of what the strength of those links are. What we also do is we remove any that are below DR 30 and using Ahrefs metrics still, you know because they're just too week to really influence that much. It can have a minor difference, but it's not much. And then obviously remove any that are no-follow. I know follows where you is. It you recommend surgeon is, Hey, I don't really trust this website. I already noticed website. I don't pass any benefits to that. Obviously you recommend is what they say these days, but I don't count them whatsoever anyway.

Daryl (43:20): So that gives us kind of a breakdown into here's the links we to build. And if, if you're buying them, then you can just say, okay, we need 10- DR 45 links. Okay. Just to go buy 10 DR 45 links. That makes it nice and simple beyond that. But there is also relevancy there's when you build in different types of links, maybe you can build a guest post. Maybe you can build like a link insert or something like that. Well then which type should you build? Well, relevancy indicates that because the way we measure relevancy is how relevant is the page itself that links to you. So if I'm trying to rank for best gaming chair and I have a link from a page that the page content itself is also best gaming chair, or that is a hundred percent relevancy matches super, super relevant link.

Daryl (44:05): Whereas if that, that content is linking, to me is about gaming chairs in general, that's pretty relevant, but it's not as relevant as the exact keyword itself. And if it's just even more general just about chairs or just about gaming stuff in general, or maybe something completely unrelated that somehow links in some way, then that's as much, much less relevant. Now that indicates to us how relevant the links need to be. We're building. If it's super relevant links need, we probably want a guest posts. And the reason you want a guest posts in most cases is because we control the relevancy. If we write a guest for someone, we can literally write the keyword in a title. So if we want to rank for it for best gaming chairs, we might not be able to write a review for best gaming chairs because it's too difficult.

Daryl (44:48): It's too competitive. And it's, you're not going to write that in a thousand words, but we can at least include gaming chairs. So you can get a pretty high level of relevancy in that, by controlling the content which you do with a guest posts. Whereas if you reached out to some other people's content and they have a review page about best gaming chairs, they're probably not going to link to you, but you can also get links from other pages on that site possible. So that is something you can do that, which it's not exact relevancy on that page, but it's still pretty relevant. Like this is going to be topically relevant to gaming chairs or best game chairs. I think a little bit long long-winded there. But the point is we analyze the data and that, that gives us the plan. Now in terms of, how you build links, the go-to method for most people these days is what I suggest is, is outreach links and outreach links essentially means you reach out to other webmasters, you try and form some form of relationship with them.

Daryl (45:36): And then that was going to have really bad the way I was going to say, I was gonna say that you didn't negotiate a link with him. Um, but basically, um, yeah, you, you open up relationships and then you use those relationships. Again, sounds really bad to try and get links on their website. And you can do this via having better content. If your content is better, you can say, Hey, why don't you link to this? Because it's better than the link you provided. Currently, you can do this money, which is what we usually do these days, which is on the gray hat side, which is, Hey, can I just pay you $50, a hundred dollars, whatever to include a link. You just saved us some kind of negotiation and relationship building time. And you can just do that in various different ways like that. You can offer some something in exchange that isn't money.

Daryl (46:18): People do that also, but it's basically, you, you reach out to them and you offer something in exchange, whether that is, Hey, my content is better, whether that is money or wherever, that is some little piece of advice, something like that because people do like say broken link building and their email. You email them say, Hey, this link is broken by the way. But I have an alternative piece of content that may replace that. If you want to link it to that, something like that. But you just lead with some form of value, opening a relationship and trying to go in some way, I'm getting a link from that website.

Nick (46:46): What kind of, I know you guys said that you pay for a lot of them from the like in a gray hat side of things. So you probably have a pretty good success rate as far as getting the links. I'm curious, what kind of success rate do you get when you are just reaching out kind of building relationships? Is it a, is it a cold outreach?

Daryl (47:04): You get better response rates from that because we're just emailing sites at scale. And just trying to find sites that looks at payment for links. So w we're getting very, very, very low response rates. I don't even know what they are because I'm not running that team. Um, but it's low cause it's very just email a ton of sites identify which ones will we'll let us guest post on a site. And like that easily negotiated payments pretty quickly, because most of them are going to ask for money at that point. And it's just very low. You can get much higher response rates. It's like 10% or something. That's fine. That's true. So when you're more personalized with the emails, you'll get better responses. The name of the game there is what is more strategic for you. What makes better sense for you the way we're doing it?

Daryl (47:52): Isn't that because we want volume because, well, we sell links as a service. So when you have to build a thousand links a month or whatever, well, you can't really manually write out emails for every single person and trying to acquire those links individually. So we just want volume and we want people that looks at payments. So we'd have to spend a ton of time sorting this out. If you're a small bloggers on venue, you're on a tighter budget. Then of course go the more personal route and create really, really good content and use that to land links or create tools or something like that. And use that to land links. People have tools. For example, if it's a mattress one isn't again, then the mattress site will have a sleep calculator. What is the ideal? What is the ideal time to go to sleep?

Daryl (48:35): And what is, how many hours should you sleep? And what time do you wake up? All that sort of fast asleep calculate? Well, pretty much every mattress site has a sleep calculator because it is the exact same thing and then use that. And they reach out to people and say, Hey, we made this sleep calculator that tells you what is the best time to go to sleep? And it's probably overdone now. But if you look up some of the websites that did this, they have links from really big websites because it works. It's like a really cool little tool. I've seen a friend of mine get really cool links because he did a, some research. He went in and interviewed or gave people a questionnaire, at least maybe a thousand people. He paid someone to do this for him. And then it gave him much of data.

Daryl (49:14): Then he approached different sites and said, Hey, 20% of people that completed this, um, found this result, whatever, and try and find someone like controversial interest in that they may want to write about or create some interesting images or whatever. It just something that adds a little bit value that is worth them writing about if you're doing this kind of more manually or just good content. If your content is really good at Brian Deans, that technique is famous for this, his Skyscraper Technique, which perhaps everyone knows everyone talks about that. But that's the easiest one to understand if your content is better than theirs then than someone else's, then why wouldn't they link to you instead?

Nick (49:49): Something like, Surfer SEO, that's already analyzing the top 10 sites. It'd be very easy to, I guess, one write the page that you're on par with the pages that are ranked in the top 10, and then just take it a step further and create content. That's that much better

Daryl (50:04): In a way by, I think Surfers more for, for, for robots, not humans. Okay. So that's the balancing act of use and Surfer is that you've got to take into consideration. This is going to tell me how to optimize this for Google, but it's not going to tell me how to optimize this for a user. So they may say, Hey, include this word 12 times within the content, but you need to do that in a way that, that sounds good and reads well for the user. It's not just about bots at that point. So it's kind of a balancing act. So I'm not sure it'd really help in that regard. Okay. Um, but I'll see. You should do it anyway. Cause it's gonna help you rank your content.

Nick (50:35): No, and I think that is a very excellent point. Something that we haven't really touched on in the episode, but we're talking about stuff that is very technical and very strategic, but at the same time, you can't eliminate the human element. You are still writing content for humans. We're just trying to position it in a way where Google notices it. So yeah, exactly. I'm glad you mentioned that because that is, I think a lot of times when people start getting into SEO, the human aspect of it, like everyone forgets that people are reading these articles. Yes.

Daryl (51:08): It's so funny. Cause they'll just include the word like keyword over and over again. Like the amount of times I read like a, like a local business website and it was really something like we're a plumbing company in London. that sells plumbing services in London. And this is like over and over again and saying this same fan is like, this is really, really bad. Um, so two things that you mentioned already, number one is that you're doing this as a business. You're trying to make money. So it's not going to convert if you just do it for search engines. And number two, is that what is it. Oh, Engagement signals. It's an actually a ranking factor. So if your content is terrible, even if it's a Google friendly, you may get onto the first page, but you're not gonna rank Number one, at least not for long because people will click onto it. They'll think what the heck is this? They go back and click on another page. Well, the other page is eventually gonna outrank you because of that engagement signals is a thing. They're not spending time on your site because your content sucks, then it's not going to rank very well.

Nick (52:01): Awesome. Perfect. And I guess just for clarification purposes, when you say engagement signals, you're talking like if people are starting to interact on your site, if they're staying on page

Daryl (52:11): It could be, um, yeah. How long this down the page, things like that. And then, um, if they're staying on your site, you know, going back to the et cetera out, sometimes they will. But obviously it's better if, if, if you can solve their problem for them and how many people click your website versus the competitors that are also ranking, if you were in position number three and everyone clicks your website and not the one in position, number one or two, that's probably a good sign that they like where your content is about. So there's another thing like little tricks. You can do tricks writ in a way you can optimize the title tag and a meta description. That's the two things that show in the search results. And you can try and mention some things that make you sound better than you others. So, and your meta-description mentioned, Hey, we do free shipping, like free shipping and next day delivery and things like this that make you sound better than the competitor.

Nick (52:58): Excellent. All right, man, we are coming close to the end here. Now, would there be any final tips or advice for someone who's just starting out in SEO and they're looking to start ranking their site a little bit higher. They're going to start out manually right now. Just kind of get their wings on them. What kind of advice would you give them as they're getting started?

Daryl (53:19): Just experiment.

Daryl (53:20): This is really organized and patience, as you mentioned at the beginning of this episode, um, definitely patients is not going to happen quickly and beyond that, it's just experimenting. What I loved about getting into SEO was that I started with kind of local business websites and it was just kind of, it was kind of easy. It was low competition and it was a good starting point to kind of experiment with, and then you try something else. So the more competitive, it's just that game, all experimentation. Don't just try and create a single piece of content and just rank this one single page because maybe it doesn't work. Even the best SEOs in the world. It's not happening regularly, but sometimes they'll just have a keyword and just cannot rank for that keyword. There's the page doesn't want to rank the website just doesn't want to rank. It happens is real thing, unfortunately. Um, so create multiple different pieces of content and just experiment with it and probably relisten to this like 10 times, because I actually had quite a lot, um, and went a little bit technical. So while this will give you the full blueprint, it certainly gives you the, the, the points to, to dive deeper into. Perfect.

Nick (54:22): And if you're looking to dive deeper, you have all kinds of YouTube videos, resources. I mean, you got a whole agency dedicated to this stuff. So with that, where can people find you and get in touch with you? Or I guess dive deeper into that.

Daryl (54:39): Yeah. So, um, my YouTube, uh, Daryl Rosser, I actually started doing YouTube properly, like a month ago before that I just did like the odd interview or the odd video, but like a month or so ago, I started uploading a lot. You saw those videos. I literally do like five videos a week for the last like month or two.

Nick (54:56): I don't know how you're doing it. It's blowing my mind.

Daryl (54:59): With a lot of difficulty.

Nick (55:00): For someone who's an introvert tech nerd hiding behind the computer. I mean, you've been, I think the videos are awesome. You're doing a great job with them

Daryl (55:09): Either I'll do them consistently or won't do them at all. So I decided to do it, so, okay. Let's be consistent with it. I'm kind of weird with details. And like, if I decide that I'm going to do this five times a week, then my challenge is there are five times a week. I don't want to do that. So I'm, I'm competitive in that way. I'll be, yeah. You do want to find me on YouTube, just search my name, Daryl Rosser. Uh, if you want to buy backlinks, if you want to buy guests posts and link assist, we can do that for you. We do that at lionzeal.com and my agency, I started the agency like three months ago. I mentioned it previously for e-commerce SEO. I have no idea how to pronounce the name. We came up with. Like we just randomly picked a name and I still haven't decided how exactly we're going to pronounce it. So I'm getting, anxiety now thinking about what I'm going to say. So the agency is, um, something along the lines of logics, low checks, something like this it's L O G E I X.com. So I'm, I'm still not decided I'll get your input afterwards on how exactly we should pronounce this.

Nick (56:06): Yeah. And we'll, we'll throw it in the show notes. So the pronunciation's not as, it's not as important here. Well, awesome, man. I think this was a really, a really informative episode. Like you mentioned before, come back relisten to it really listened to it. I mean, I think you covered a lot of really great stuff here. And I think even some people who have a little bit of experience in SEO, there's a lot of information to learn from this episode. So I just want to thank you for coming on the episode, man. I had a blast talking with you.

Daryl (56:35): That's awesome. Thanks for having me again, man. It's very cool.

Nick (56:38): Thank you so much for listening to that interview with Daryl Rosser. I hope this interview was able to give you a little bit better insight into what SEO is and how you can start improving your own search rankings in search engines, such as Google.

Nick (56:50): I highly recommend you check out Daryl's YouTube channel because he's sharing a ton of knowledge on SEO that can really help you start getting more traffic and ultimately grow your business. If you're interested in working with Daryl and any of his agencies, you can visit lionzeal.com or if you're in the e-commerce space, you can take a look at logeix.com. That's L O G E I X.com. These links and the links to all the tools. Along with that glossary of terms I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, can once again, be found over on my show notes page, the show notes for this episode can be found at ninefivepodcast.com/episode27. And just remember nine five is all spelled out that's N I N E F I V E podcast.com/episode27. That is it for me in the nine five podcasts of this week. I hope you all walked away with some knowledge and things to think about and work on. So thanks for tuning in and I will catch up with you all next week.

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Show Notes

Note: You can find a Glossary of Terms at the bottom of the page.


SEO can be very overhwhelming, especially if you’re new to it. In this episode, we covered a lot of content around what SEO is and how you can start using SEO to rank higher on search engines, like Google.

I also wanted to break it down a little further to help you better understand what it is that we’re talking about.


What is SEO?


SEO stands for Search Engine Opimization. What this means is we’re trying to make the pages on our website more friendly for search engines and show them that our post is beneficial for the target audience.


This can be done by:

1. Making sure that your webpage use keywords that are relevant to what is being searched for

2. Improving the user experience on your website (ie improving the speed of your website, having a mobile-friendly site, etc.)

3. Making sure that the content is relevant to what is being searched


This is obviously a very high-level way of saying that your content needs to be relevant and useful for the end-user. Search engines won’t want to show your content to users if it’s not going to help them or provide a good experience.


So how does it work?


Start with the Keyword Research


Keyword research is the process of finding relevant keywords that you would like to, and can hopefully, rank for in search engines. This is arguably one of the most important aspects of having a well-optimized website, and should be done before you even write your content.

There are many tools out there, like Surfer SEO, Ahrefs (both mentioned in this episode), and SEMRush (affiliate link) that can all help with your keyword research. Tools like these allow you to see and analyze what kewords your competitors are ranking for and help you determine how difficult of a keyword it is to rank for.


Understanding the Search Intent


Search intent is extremely important when it comes to keyword research.

You need to understand what the searcher is hoping to accomplish when they enter your keyword into the search engines.


Are they looking to buy something?

Are they looking for more information or to get their questions answered?

And then additionally, what are your goals in ranking for this keyword?


Make more sales?

Provide more information?


If you have a website about kayaks and someone is searching kayaks for sale, they probably are looking to purchase a kayak.

If you don’t sell kayaks, it doesn’t make sense for you to try ranking for the keyword kayaks for sale.

If you are only sharing information about kayaks, you may be better off trying to rank for Top 10 Kayak Brands.


Writing the Content – Know Who You’re Writing For


One of the biggest mistakes people make, who are new to SEO, is this thing called “keyword stuffing.”

Before SEO became what is is today and search engines, like Google, started improving their algorithms, you could rank a website rather quickly by throwing your keyword into a blog post many times.

This used to signal to search engines that “Hey, this page is about [insert keyword here]”

Now, search engines are getting smarter and look at many more factors than just the keyword itself.


Although there are still ways to “game the system” the quality of your content is more important now than ever before.

When writing content for your website, you need to remember that you’re writing content for people using the search engines. You can’t write content for the search engines themselves.


This goes back to what I mentioned earlier in this post about search intent. By understanding why someone is searching for a specific keyword, you’ll be able to write better content for that person.


What Are Backlinks and Why Do I Need Them?


Backlinks are links on website that direct people to a website. In this case, hopefully it’s your website.

But why do I need them?

Backlinks are kind of like a subtle nod to search engines, letting them know that your website has value. If people are pointing to your website and sending them there, the content must be good, right?


It can be very difficult to get backlinks and there are good and bad ways to go about getting them. We discuss this fairly in-depth on the episode.


Basically, the more backlinks from quality websites that you have pointing to your site, the better your website will show up in search engines. There are a few different ways you can go about getting backlinks to your site:


  • Reach out to other website owners and ask them for a link
  • Find broken links on a website that you’d like a link – again, reach out to the website owner to let them know and that you have a related link they can use instead
  • Write guests posts for other websites
  • Pay for backlinks


Caution: If you choose to buy backlinks, be careful with where these links are coming from. There are quality link building services, like Lion Zeal. And then there are places that will gladly take your money, but give you low-quality, potentially harmful backlinks pointing to your site. YOU DO NOT WANT THIS!


When all else fails, there is nothing wrong with hiring someone to manage your SEO. Services, like Daryl’s, are an excellent option for anyone who is serious about SEO and looking to build up their website’s presence.

Glossary of Terms

Terms mentioned in this episode to help you better understand SEO.


SEO – Stands for search engine optimization. It is a digital marketing strategy for increasing a website’s visibility in search engines and bringing more organic (non-paid) traffic to a website.

Keyword Research – Is the process of finding popular terms and phrases that people are typing into search engines, with the intent of including them in webpage content to show up higher in search rankings.

DR/DA/AS – These are acronyms (Domain Rating/Domain Authority/Authority Score respectively) and are all relatively same thing. Various tools such as Ahrefs and SEMRush create rankings of all the websites they crawl and give each site a score from 0-100. Higher the score, higher the authority of that website.

Backlinks – Links that point from one website to another. Search engines like Google use backlinks to help determine if the website is an authoritative site. More quality backlinks to one website or page generally equates to more authority and higher search rankings.

White Hat SEO – SEO tactics that are in accordance with search engine requirements and conditions. Generally a result of purely organic growth.

Grey Hat SEO – SEO tactics that are on the border of purely organic and tactics that search engines frown upon. If webmasters are reaching out and asking or paying for backlinks, this would typically fall under “Grey Hat.”

Black Hat SEO – Illegal tactics used for increasing one’s website rankings of a site, or sending bad signals to other websites in hopes that their rankings will decrease. Purchasing low-quality links, spamming, etc.

Engagement Signals – Basic interactions within a website that may indicate to search engines that the page is of quality (clicking on the website link, returning to the page, commenting, sharing, etc).

Internal Linking – The use of links within a website that point to another page within the same website.

Bots – Also known as crawlers. Search engines use bots to analyze and scan web pages and links to determine where within the rankings a given webpage should be placed.


If there are any other terms mentioned in this episode that you would like more calirification on, please leave a comment below.

Links & Resources

Note: Some of the links listed below may be affiliate links. This means I will receive a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you choose to purchase through them.

Connect with Daryl

SEO Tools

  • SEMRush – Perform keyword research, analyze your competitors, and improve your search rankings
  • Surfer SEO – analyzes and provides suggestions based on website in the Top 10 results for a given keyword
  • Keyword Cupid – Uses keyword mapping to determine how many pages your website should have and what keywords to target


If you haven’t done this already, you can leave a review of the Nine-Five Podcast over on iTunes

Thank You!

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Nine-Five Podcast. Thank you so much for listening!


If you enjoyed this episode, please head over to iTunes and leave a review. Your reviews are what help get this podcast in front of more people!


How familiar are you with SEO and keyword research in general? Is this something you struggle with?

Leave your answers in the comments below.



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"The value you provide to others directly correlates to your success. The more value you provide, the more successful you become. Focus on the value!"

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I am an entrepreneur and adventure enthusiast, looking to break free from the Nine-Five grind. I'll show you what has worked and is currently working for me, as well as what hasn't worked so well.

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