Nick (00:01): This is the Nine-Five Podcast. And I'm your host Nick Nalbach. Where we get into the minds of entrepreneurs and people just like you. So you can start, build and grow your own online business.

Nick (00:18): Okay. Welcome back to the Nine-Five Podcast. I'm your host, Nick Nalbach. And this is the show where we bring on entrepreneurs and business owners to help you start and grow your own business. And today we are talking about what I think is an extremely important topic, and that is email marketing. We've talked about it a little bit in the past, but we haven't really dove hard into it. So to help us with that today, I'm bringing on Angela Henderson. So Angela, welcome to the Nine-Five Podcast.

Angela (00:44): Hey, awesome to be here.

Nick (00:46): And Angela is calling in and chatting with us from Australia, which is super awesome. We were just talking about Australia a little bit before that the wildlife cool, and also dangerous 100%.

Angela (01:00): It's a mixture over here. That's for sure.

Nick (01:03): So why don't you give the listeners a little bit of an idea of who you are and what it is you do? We already know you're from Australia now, but what, what are you doing in this online space

Angela (01:14): CSO? Uh, I started in the online space about 10 years ago and, uh, it was when my son was born. He was about nine months old and I just remember looking on the ground and he was playing with all these great toys that had been given to us, but everything was electronic. So it's like you had to put a ball in and then this, you know, the whistles and these lights would go. And I was like, well, that's really great. But I was like, at the end of the day, where is the old school stuff to really work on fine motor skill development, gross motor skill development, it just spark imagination. So I started looking on different outlets and toys because at that same stage, I was also a trained mental health clinician. So I was working full time in that particular field, doing diagnostic assessments for those individuals, with autism, depression, anxiety, et cetera.

Angela (01:54): And I know the benefits of sparking do you mean it's stimulating your brain? So all in a nutshell, I did some work and I opened up my first business, which was Finley in me where we focused on creating childhood memories or play love and travel. And through that business, we obviously start with zero products, but we got up to over 1400 products before we ended up closing down that particular business and that business really obviously e-comm business. And that was really great, but it taught me so much. Email marketing was one of my main drivers and still is today. So I'm very passionate about email marketing. And then through that too, as I also had a second income stream, I started to realize that obviously the people that were buying were mothers and they were going through like loneliness, anxiety, depression, a whole bunch of the big changes with becoming moms.

Angela (02:37): So I started blogging about it. And through that, I'd be created a second income stream where I was signed with Netflix as one of their top 30 influencers here in Australia, New Zealand, I would write content for them and they would utilize that and access my audience weighed about 70,000 followers on that particular page, very healthy 20,000 plus Instagram following. And we had over 55,000 people, our email list. So by partnering up with companies like Netflix and similar to the U S like your whole foods, the Hilton's and things like that, um, I was able to then bring in another income stream. So the first business taught me a lot. And then what I realized is after a course of two months in 14 coffee dates, I don't even drink coffee. I realized that what people were doing were they picking my brain? And what I should have said is, well, let me pick your credit card first.

Angela (03:24): Right? Because what I didn't realize is that they actually wanted my strategy. And because I didn't even have on the cards to become a business consultant, I'm quite a giver I give back to community. But then I was like, I was driving home that last kind of coffee that I was like, oh my goodness. Ah, if I charge people for my, you know, um, I guess, awesome. This just kidding. If I charge people for the domain strategy I have, then I can have a second business. And that's where Angela Anderson consulting came about. So it organically came and then we wrapped up Finlee and Me, and now I work predominantly with women in business to get all the pieces in place to make their first four and five came like four and five figure months, and then on six and seven plus figure years, but without burning out.

Angela (04:05): And I really emphasize the burnout because I find no matter what stage of entrepreneurship you are, there was a significant risk of burning out. You know, if you're looking at businesses, startup growth and scale, if you're in startup, you've got the pressures of potentially bootstrapping or maybe working a full-time job and then family components, and then, you know, your partner or your marriage might start to like crack, right? So, you know, it's really important that you're looking and taking care of your mental health. Uh, you know, the suicide rates in Australia are eight. People take their life every single day. And entrepreneurship is equally at a high risk for that, you know? So I'm very passionate about that. We ensure the mental health stays there and that we're not hustling. Wow.

Nick (04:43): That, that is an incredible story. So why with, with the e-com, so obviously that part of it is kind of shut down. Was there a specific reason, was it just, you were seeing more growth with Angela Henderson or just not passionate about the economy? I'm just curious why.

Angela (05:00): Absolutely. So what happened with the e-comm was, and people had said this at the beginning, they're like, obviously you've got little kids. So the business is really great because I could go to the toy fairs and things were so relevant that I could do a blog content around Play-Doh and fine motor skill, and then bring in my Play-Doh wooden stamps that we would use. And I could do the mean sell through that way. Right. But as my kids got older, I was like, I don't actually want to go much further. My toy range was from newborns through to seven. And when I made this decision, I was like, actually, I don't really want to start going into that tween and teen products. I feel like there's enough. And ultimately, as we all know, they're more engaged in electronics. And that was against my ethos with what I was trying to do was to actually listen, don't me.

Angela (05:42): My kids have iPad. They're on TV. They're watching Netflix like the best of them, but I'm also about go connect with nature, go take the dog for a walk. And I just felt like the teenager stuff there's so much that was around like tronics. So for me, it was a decision that, um, a lot times I feel businesses don't give themselves permission to know when it's time to wrap something up and that they just kind of keep going. And then it again, adds to their mental health. It adds to the stress. They're no longer finding joy. So for me, was it ran its course, right? It did what I needed to do. People have asked to sell it, or like people have asked to buy it off of me, but I was a huge part of the brand because of the influencer and the blogging part of it.

Angela (06:21): Right. And for me and my kids are part of that. So I purposely did not sell the business based on the fact of it was too much of me, funnily enough, though, we've still kept our Facebook page active and it was, I kept it active and I don't know why, but I've kept my VA team. Do you mean just posting a few times a day over there? And it's funny enough because I'm in the middle of building my next kind of legacy model for me, which is my foundation. Now I can't talk too much about it. Cause illegals and names and things like that, but I'll be able to leverage the 70,000 people that we've built over there and our Instagram account for this foundation. I'm starting. So again, never in the plan, but it's just so happened that it's worked out, that it will now be in the plan.

Nick (07:01): That is awesome. That's so cool. Wow. Now I'm curious w before, even before the e-comm stuff, like, were you working a normal nine? I call it normal, but were you working a nine to five job where you kind of grind in that way before deciding that you wanted to create your own business? Or did you just kind of dive into e-comm right away?

Angela (07:21): Listen, I I've been working. I still worked in my nine to five job up until three years ago. So, uh, it was very, and I say this for people because I really get the. When people say, just quit your nine to five. Now I probably could have quit my nine to five a lot earlier. So I wouldn't necessarily recommend staying in it for as long as I did, but I love what I do. I love being able to help individuals who, unfortunately it becomes little, well, you know, that they're in a hospital and how to, can we get them back in functioning and really rehabilitate them back into community. It's a huge, do you mean it lit me up. I also love going to the, you know, every day was valley laughs at lunch. Right. I missed that because as we know in the online space, it can be a bit lonely, you know, like I'm always like, yes, a podcast interview.

Angela (08:02): I can speak with humans again. Luckily enough. I speak with humans every day because of consulting, but there's an essence of I do miss it. So I think I stayed in also that startup stage is lonely right too. I mean, every stages. So I still work my full nine to five jobs. So I would pretty much with a little kid. I'd be up at the crack of Dawn for five 30 with the baby. I'd be in the car at six 30. I'd be at my desk by seven 30. I'd leave my desk at three 30. I'd walk in at the house at four 30. And I was a mom hat from four 30 to seven. Then from seven to rent eight obviously would hang out with the hubby, do whatever. And then from eight to 10 and eight to 11 is when I did the business.

Angela (08:38): And I did that repetitively. I would also work weekends and like, um, I needed to go to markets to get my product into more people's hands. And that was really big. Obviously back when I started, I was like, COVID, there's not a lot of markets happening and things like that. Um, so that's, that's where that was kind of how adventure I'm very strict with my time and with my boundaries with that. And in many ways, working the nine to five, I was more productive in that time slot from seven 30 to 10 or 11 than I am when I have 10 hours a day to just freely do whatever. Also in Australia, we get four weeks annual leave. We get two weeks sick leave. We get 10 public holidays off. And also in the position I was at, I was able to get one roster day off a month. So collectively I was only at my work for a little less than eight out of the 12 months a year. So I strategically leverage my sick leave and I strategically leveraged those roster days off to be working on days in the business. Um, so again, these are the things that allowed me to still pay my bills, not put any additional financial pressure on the family, still holiday and do all of that. While at the same time growing the business,

Nick (09:48): That's really smart. I can tell the, the burnout is, or the trying to prevent burnout is definitely at the top of mind through all of that, because I mean, if you were grinding away like that nonstop, I can see that quickly leading to burnout

Angela (10:03): 100%. And so the thing was, is, and I'm very open about it. I actually suffered through anxiety and depression, but that was through workplace bullying. And so that's why it was ultimately why I left my nine to five job was there was some unethical behavior going on and I, you know, I reported it back to managers and, you know, I was managing two and a half, $3 million court portfolios on mental health funding to help those that needed to do the mean significant help. Um, people may have been laundering money and I don't necessarily agree with that. So I reported that back to management, um, and basically they didn't want to support me. So I lawyered up, uh, because I said, listen to biscuits to media, I refused for my name to get brought down when I've reported accordingly. Um, and the lawyers basically said, you do know that as soon as we send this letter, you're going to have a target on your back. And sure enough, the workplace bullying started pretty substantially. Um, so then took leave. You know, I had to see a psychiatrist. I was on medication, but it's very important that you know, that wasn't because of the business, right. That was directly related to workplace bullying. So, yeah.

Nick (11:07): Wow. Well, I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm glad that you had kind of the foundation built up for your business because now that's, I mean, what started as e-comm and you quite literally grew out of it or the family grew out of it and now, I mean, you have something that's thriving and kicking, so that's, that's,

Angela (11:28): You know, people always say, oh, do you resent that? Listen to, obviously I went through the resentment with the birthplace bullying, but that, that I believe everything that comes into your life, it's not failures or mistakes or whatever, but they're actually the stepping stones. So the lessons that we need to learn in order to get to where we're at. So I am very firm that I am where I'm at because of working in my full-time job. And because of going through the bullying, obviously I don't encourage anyone to have to go through bullying in any way. But when I do is, is I'm very much, I've got a pretty growth mindset. And even though it was at the time, the reality of it is, is it's made me who I am today for the better. And I'm able to advocate better for people because of that experience. And also give back in a different way holistically that others, I don't think can or have that, um, because I've never gone through that expense.

Nick (12:16): I love that. That's so human.

Angela (12:20): Yeah. Very much about you. Again, you mentioned two key things. There is foundations. I was able to do what I was able to do for both businesses because of foundations, right? Email marketing as part of the foundations. But the analogy I use is that of the three little pigs, if you're building a business, most business owners comes to me and obviously through the pigs that got to a housemate of hay sticks and bricks, most businesses that come to me have a business made out of hay or a business made of sticks. It's structurally there, but it wouldn't take much for that to crumble. Right now. I'm all about building a business of bricks. Now, if you take it one step further bricks, though, they cost more right again. And would I associate that cost with is like you might be paying for a coach to work with, you might be paying to your website set up correctly.

Angela (13:09): So each brick takes a little bit longer. It's a little bit more expensive, but once you've got that foundation set, even if something like a baseball goes to that window or AKA COVID comes, you're still structurally sound. And yes, that window that shattered everywhere. There's glass. We got to clean it up and it's socks, but we're going to be okay. So for me, it's really, the foundations are key for business growth and that, you know, without them, most businesses do the mean will at some stage kind of crumble. I work with one of Australia's leading plastic surgeons. And even when, uh, Tim came to me, uh, obviously he makes millions of dollars, right. But it's all based on word of mouth. But what we were looking at though is, is he's getting older and he wants to reduce the amount of time, actually an opera like theater, they call it over here or like the operating rooms, right.

Angela (13:57): Cause he's getting older and he doesn't have to stand for 14 hours a day. But I said, you've based your business off of referrals only. And again, that's still a businessman or a stick. So if those were taken away, you'd have nothing left. So even when I'm working with, you know, multimillionaires is sometimes I still have to strip them back and go back to the foundations and lay those out accordingly in order for us to really get to the growth and scale stage. So, so what are those foundations? Yes. So the foundations for me are really, again, if I kind of go key, like again, product, if you have a ship product, I can't put feathers on it. I can't sprinkle demon glitter on it. A turd as a turd. Like it's like, there's nothing I can do. So the first thing is like product, whether or not it's a physical product or whether or not it's a service, your product still has to be something that people are going to buy.

Angela (14:44): If not, your foundation's from the beginning. Okay. Then I look at like really, I know a lot of people go on about know your ideal client niche down. I kind of call on a little bit of that because I think it's important. But I also think if you niche too quickly, you can actually like lose the business. But if you don't niche and evolve over time, you may never grow the business. All right. So for me, but if we just go to foundations is product needs to be good and not uttered to you really need to understand who are you selling to, but not in the traditional way. Three, you need to make sure that you've got clear messaging messaging in my opinion will make or break you because when people land on your website or interact with you, they predominantly need to know what you do and how you're going to make their life better.

Angela (15:27): So messaging is key. Then the next thing is having a conversional website. I don't care if your website looks pretty. I really give two about it, but if I can't get on your website and have clear messaging above the fold clear call to action and understand what that next step is, your website is not going to serve me and all your clients. Um, through there. I also talk about, um, funnels, email marketing, and team. Now that's kind of like the core foundations when people are starting. Now that I've evolved myself into businesses. What I also add to those foundations is the fact that at some stage mindset, now I'm always pushing mindset. But what I find in the startup stages, people are a little bit scattered and they're just running from one thing to the next, trying to just get those sales, right, is that they don't think mindset's important. I still think it's a foundational key. And the last component that I've just been doing lately is in relation to, um, looking at different. Do you mean modalities in the spirituality space? Something that I never would have said anything about ages ago, but yeah, I'm now slowly looking at different practices for that,

Nick (16:36): That really kind of segues into where I really wanted to go next with the conversation, really the, the meat of this episode and that is email marketing. And before we do that, I realized that I forgot to do something that I do with literally everybody on this podcast. It's like one of the first things I do. And that is to ask you what your superpower is. And for anyone listening that has heard the podcast are probably like, why hasn't Nick asked this yet? Cause I usually do that right at the beginning. So by superpower, I mean like what does that thing that you feel like you crush it at? You're just a rockstar. Maybe people come to you for this one thing. What do you think your super power would be?

Angela (17:11): I mean, yeah. I would say that when people think of Angela Anderson, they think of domain strategy, right. Is, is, is that's really it strategy. And I think a close second though, is people come to me because I'm like human to human element really is like, I'm not here to treat people like a transaction. So when people come to me, they know that like, they're getting me, they're not getting other coaches. They're not getting pawned off to other people like it's me. And so I think it's a combination. People are coming for strategy, but they're also coming because they know that I'm a firm believer in human team and marketing and ensuring that people feel like people and just start to get the results. And in this space, I think there's mentors and consultants and I've considered myself more consultant and strategist. And that would be my superpowers. You're coming for me to look at your business and to figure out what's going to work for your business in a non cookie cutter approach. And look at, what's worked for me, what's worked for my clients. And what is the current do mean research showing on a particular element of a business model and how do we adapt it into what works for your mission, your vision, and ultimately to help you become profitable. So, yeah, that would be my superpower.

Nick (18:17): I love that. That's that's perfect. And the human, the human element, that's something we've talked about on several podcast episodes now being human and how important that is. And it actually, it email marketing, although it, it seems like it can be just like flooded with spam. I mean, we all get those emails that were just like leave me alone. But on the flip side, if done correctly, email marketing is a great way to add that human element and kind of build those relationships with people. And I think it's just often forgotten.

Angela (18:46): Well, it is because if you look at the true essence of human to human marketing, people talk about B2B and B2C. But if you look at H to H or some people call it people to people, if you genuinely look at human to human marketing, the definition that I have is it's the experience and interaction on faces with a particular brand. So if you're able to create an experience and a positive interaction through your email marketing, it can still be very human led. Right. Um, so again, I think it's a core element of what is needed for business growth and still, like I said, being human about it. Yeah,

Nick (19:19): No, I absolutely love that. Now. I really am interested in your strategy because you were just telling me about a crazy good success story that just recently happened. So I guess before we get into that, no, you know what, let's start with that. We'll roll with it. So what, yeah. Why don't you tell everyone what has been going on just recently with one of your clients? I think it'll, it'll kind of tie into what we're talking about as far as like the email and the strategy and all that.

Angela (19:46): So I started working with this beautiful lady over in Sweden, and she's an artist she's never done any paid ads, but she also has done really well on her own organically to date. And I said to her, I said, listen, we need to really be list-building here. I said, because it comes down to audience. If you don't have an audience. Now email building is part of that, your Instagram, your podcasts, all that, that adds to your audience. But to me is you need to be building your audience where there's an asset, build your own real estate. So by you building your email list, you're owning your own real estate versus fielding on other people's land, like the social media platforms. All right. So she came to me and she said, okay, great. There's been a lot of fear with this particular client, you know, is, I don't know if I should do this.

Angela (20:30): Can I do this to the people want this? So we had to work through a little bit of those hurdles of beginning. So what I said to her was, I said, listen, you're paying for me as a consultant and you're painting your website and stuff fixed. I don't want us to have to put any more money into ads yet because we don't have your website lodge. And the thing is, as people think that Facebook will save them, if you're doing Facebook ads and driving them back to a website or a landing page or super sales page, you're going to lose the conversion anyway. So Facebook will not save you. So I said to her, we don't have some other assets already built. Let's just do organic. And she said, well, how am I going to do this organically? If I don't have, like, I've only got my own community, I've got a small email list.

Angela (21:08): Like, how else am I going to do this without posting on Facebook a million times a day? And I said, well, let's turn to affiliates. And then there was some mindset around, well, why would they want to work with me? And what are they going to get out of it? And, you know, because it just, we worked for that. So I said, this one, I said, I want you to reach out to 10 other people in your space by the end of Friday. And you come back to me, I said, the worst thing they're going to say no. And maybe what it's not even that it might just be like, it might be a no now, but it will be a yes. Later. So she did that. She reached out to nine affiliates of his to reach it to 10. One to mean bomb was no longer doing that.

Angela (21:42): So let's say that the other nine came back and said, yes. And from that nine, one of them has a very substantial email list, like, like a good substantial email list. Like we're talking 30, 40,000 people. So she messaged me last night and she said, and you're not going to believe it. She's like, you kept telling me to trust the process, trust what was going on, trust the affiliates. And so, uh, just rewind a little bit. We did swipe copy. We did graphics. They're going to get 40% commission back off when she launches the program. Right? So this is what we all set up. And in less than 24 hours, we've had over 3000 plus people sign up organically to her three day art retreat that she's running. So again, it's about thinking outside of the box now. So not everyone can just reach out to affiliates, but this particular individual has been building relationships with people throughout her years of being in business.

Angela (22:41): So what I said to her, when she started to show fear, I said, it's like a bank account that you never went in to have to withdraw or take from people. But when there was a time when you needed to go in and ask for favors to help you, but equally help them make money and to help the clients is you had enough deposited that when you went and asked these affiliates, if they would join you, they naturally have all said yes, but one, because of the fact that you've given so much to them throughout the years now, I would never have suggested that particular suggestion with this person, if she hadn't already had relationships, because there's nothing worse than getting a Dick email from someone going, Hey, will you be an affiliate for me? And you haven't heard from them in 54 years, like, right. It's like, you know, she had ongoing communication with them weekly daily with some of these people by interacting on their socials, contributing to their summits. So in this instance, her longterm strategy of building relationships has didn't mean worked in her favor. And so that was 24 hours. We still six more days of, uh, preparing for like we're in pre-launch before we actually deliver it. Right. So, you know, I'm expecting, we probably hit close to four and a half to 5,000 people, but we'll have organically, um, in her retreat. So yeah. It's very exciting. Wow.

Nick (24:01): That's awesome. That's so cool. I had never thought about doing the affiliate route as far as like trying to build the email list. I think that's a really great idea and it kind of leads into the next, the next thing that I want to talk about here, which is about growing that email list. So aside from the affiliates, which I think is a genius idea, what are some other ways that we can actually start growing this email list? If we have, um, I'm, I'm thinking we already have a website set up, maybe we have a product that we're wanting to try to ultimately sell, and we want to have that email was built up to sell to. So how do we actually start building this list up?

Angela (24:36): Yeah. So what I did with obviously e-comm business is if you're an e-com business on the bottom of your website or the top of your website, your lead magnet, in my opinion, should be at 10%, 25%, 15% off coupon code. Okay. Because of the fact that this particular like they're buying a product, when in Australia's data, it says that a discount is predominantly the best thing for someone. The second thing is free shipping. And the third thing people are looking for in Australia anyways, is that your packaging is like more, eco-friendly like you're really, um, conscious of the environment, right? So to me is, again, you can offer a discount code. They have to give their email address in order to be able to get that code, which would then go into datamena a welcome email. So that's one way you could offer it. If you're a service-based business on your website, you should have something that is going to like a micro lesson or a micro checklist or something.

Angela (25:28): That's going to give them a little taste of what you do, but equally are going to help transform them in some way. You never just want to do a lead magnet. And then they're like, well, I just, this, this sucked, right? Like do something that is generally going to leave them better and wanting more. So those are two ways, depending if you're service-based or if you're an e-com. Another thing is quizzes are really popular at the moment. So I'm working with a client who, um, is a fitness, uh, instructor online, and she's interested specifically in the motherhood and pregnancy field. So we've just created a four D one quiz that will get segmented four ways, depending if they're currently pregnant, uh, have just had the baby or have been like a year out type scenario, we're then going to filter them through the quiz. And then we're ultimately going to lead them to a particular webinar from that quiz result.

Angela (26:17): So that's what we're doing with that particular client, uh, challenge marketing, which we talked about, where you have a three day, four day, five day challenge works like really well. Um, what I did with my client here is instead of doing H like calling it a challenge, it's still didn't mean it stood up as a challenge, but we're calling it an art retreat instead is what we're doing for that one. Um, giveaways worked really well when I first started in fiddling in me is teaming up with other people, have your ideal clients, but you're not competitors with each other as in competing for same product or services. And then you guys all pitch in, like I now would I be pitching like five, one hour coaching sessions? And then the next person might give five website audits and the next person might get five SEO audits.

Angela (27:02): Right. But together we do that. When you do a giveaway, what I've found is don't just do one like chance for someone to win, like do four, five, six, like bundle packs because people that actually feel like they've got a chance to win it. Right. So that's what my advice around the giveaways would be. Now you have to be careful with this because what I would say is a lot of people try and do that, like to grow Instagram growth, like, you know, comment below or tag below, it's really important that you are encouraging them to leave Instagram and sign up for that email and making sure that when you're in a giveaway, people are sending it to their email lists to sign up, because it's not about the followers, it's about the longterm growth of that asset, that email list. Um, let me see an exit pop-up is also great.

Angela (27:48): Regardless if you have an e-comm or service-based business. So instead of having a popup come up and like people off, as soon as they're on their website, you can have an exit pop-up, which could be again, a lead magnet, like any, like a checklist, an offer, something like that. That is different to what they've already seen on your website. I find works best because if you have one lead magnet and let's just say, it's about ideal client and they saw it, but they're like, I'm already three years into my business. You've lost getting that email. But if you do an exit pop-up and that particular one might be about how to scale to six figures, that person then might go, actually, that's what I need. So never do this in my opinion, never do the same. Now I caveat that unless you're an e-com business, right?

Angela (28:34): The discount is still a discount, right. So just to make that, so those are kind of the ones, the last one. Yeah. As an, as a made up a third of my current email list has come from my Facebook community. So when people go into my Facebook group, there are three questions that you're allowed to ask that Facebook gives, and it will populate for you. So I asked them, what are they struggling with? And then I've got a list of things like, would you like access to this lead magnet, the podcast, this summit, whatever. And they can take what they want. And then what happens is, is, and then we ask them to leave their email. We then use a tool called group leads and group leads. We'll then put that into active campaign and it will fire off the welcome sequence. So for us, it's been a great way that we can generate leads by them coming into place. And then instead of segmenting, if they've wanted, um, like this lead magnet or this summit or whatever, what we've done just to make it easy is we just send one email out and it just has everything in one email and they can choose. So instead of having to cry and try and create like a whole bunch of different funnels where like soccer's domain, we haven't it. And then nothing's done wrong unethically, but we've just condensed it still into one email. And then they just didn't click and choose from there, what they want.

Nick (29:47): Oh man, that's a really good idea. And being able to actually utilize Facebook. So that's been my biggest gripe and concern with social media and Facebook groups, because it's like, okay, you have this community. But if Facebook decides, like I had this happen to me, Facebook decided that they didn't like me anymore. And just completely shut me off. I was like, had I had a large Facebook community on there. I would have been totally.

Angela (30:08): 100%. So that's why as soon as they gave that feature of those three questions, and don't just say, drop your email for X, Y, and Z, drop it for a purpose because then they're going to actually drop it. Your people giving you their email these days is like gold. It's far in between. They really want to have to give you an email, right? Because it's so much crap is just out there. So I just really encourage you that in your email group, that that's all we give them five or six options at different spaces of when they're in entrepreneurship and they can choose which option works best for them.

Nick (30:39): Okay. So, okay. We have these, we have a bunch of awesome ways to actually capture these emails. One thing that I've noticed, I've kind of struggled with myself and I'm sure a lot of people can be in the same boat with this. You create the lead magnet, you have the challenge, you have the quiz, whatever it is, but then you have to drive traffic to that particular offer. If you're a new website, you're not getting a lot of organic traffic. What can we do to actually bring people there to see what you have, what you have to offer.

Angela (31:09): Gotcha. So the, to see what you have. So again, this is where you're either exchanging time or you're exchanging money. I mean, that's the only thing. So either you're going to have to go and join particular Facebook groups or Jimmy and start building relationships with people. Or if you already have relationships with people, maybe they will do something, work with you to me to drive traffic back to your website. But if you are like, listen, I'm bootstrapping this. Well, then you're going to be exchanging your time and posting in different Facebook groups and communities. I mean, that's the reality of it guys, again, that works. It's worked for me, right? It's worked for hundreds of my clients, but it's very clear that you're exchanging time here. Now, if you have a proper website, going back to those foundations, we talked about a conversional website. We'll also include an onsite and offsite SEO strategy.

Angela (31:59): 55% of my traffic on any given month comes from SEO, not for my podcast, not for my socials organic growth. Now, if for those of you that don't know that search engine optimization, it's when someone goes to Google and then type in words as part of your conversional website, you should know what are your Janine keywords that people are typing. And then again, again, without getting too systematic, each page has their own keyword allocation to that. And you then need to do like internal linking from that. And in addition to that, then you're going to want to do offsite SEO. And that's like getting your links on to other peoples on other people's, but it's not about getting the link. It's about anchoring it with the right keywords. So for example, my homepage keyword is small. I think it's small business consulting my homepage keyword.

Angela (32:49): So we just wrote a blog article for an or I did it. My SEO team did a blog article and other person's website the other day. And we're also able to infuse small business consulting. So what we did is he then anchor texts it. So he highlighted small business consulting and then link that back to the small business consulting homepage URL. A lot of people just think that getting one link with www.angelaanderson.com, did I view a link is still better than nothing, but when you anchor that link with a particular keyword that signals to Google, like, oh, not only does her website have this here, but in addition to that, other people are signing this, therefore, both parties, we now start to rank them. Does that make sense? Like, I kind of went off on a tangent there, but I think it's really important that if you properly have your website done correctly and it's included in your build correctly, now 99% of people will say basic SEO is included in a package.

Angela (33:47): That means, all guys, like seriously, you need to have a keyword research strategy, right? It needs to be implemented and not only needs to be infused on your page, but it needs those keywords need to be infused into your copy. So if you don't have words on your website, then also you're not meeting the requirements of what Google wants. So again, it's a, it's a whole, so that's one of the things is like, again, is I'm not reliant on having to be in all these Facebook groups and things like that. And it, because like, even if I lost all my socials tomorrow 55 out of every hundred people will still find me. Yeah.

Nick (34:21): That and SEO is like the holy grail. If, when it comes to traffic, like if he can get that, you're, you're sitting really well.

Angela (34:28): Absolutely. So like I said, it's a huge, you know, thing like even again for this podcast, for example, is when you sit, when the podcast goes out, I will look at the show notes. And if this show notes, don't have my keywords anchored the way I want, I will come back to and be like, Hey, now I'll do it for you. But also like, Hey Nick, would you mind just adding this into this paragraph? Because the thing is, is I'm on about anywhere from 40 to 60 podcasts a year. So to me is it's like, I'm silly not to then go back and just ask them to anchor, text those back. Right. Versus just your you'll still probably include my website address, but if it's not anchored correctly, then it's just another website address. So that's, that's a great tip. So yeah. So my thing would be, is make sure you've got SEO, cause that will help again, SEO is a long-term strategy.

Angela (35:12): So just to let me make that clear is that if you have SEO going and you stop your SEO strategy and your competitors keep going, all right. Just know that. And also know that whenever you launch a new website too, is that it might take a little while for eight weeks for Google to start crawling the website keywords cause it's new and they've got to go through all their algorithms. So just know that it does take time, but it's a long-term growth strategy that it's imperative and will save you. Time will save you money and your leads are also better qualified. And what I mean by that is even though they're a cold audience, is when people go to Google, the pain is so bad, they're looking for a solution. All right. Versus someone being in their underwear, eating bond bombs and watching Netflix, scrolling, patting the dog and doing a million things.

Angela (35:57): The example, I use a, an unfortunate one, but it's the best is that when my brother passed away a few years ago, I didn't go to Facebook looking for a plane ticket. I already had my credit card out and I went to Google and I needed to find the quickest route in the most inexpensive for the last day, because I mean, he had already passed. So there's not much I could, I was like no point in trying to get there quicker your people. Right. So I did that, but like my card was already out. My pain point was I need a plane ticket. Right? So again, if people like they need a web developer right now in, do you mean Boston, Massachusetts in the, in the little suburb you'd want to be going for that small suburb keyword because people will be searching for that. All right. That's just an example of how, um, they say the data says is when people go to Google versus like Facebook, if you look at a spectrum is they're already 30% closer to the conversion. Why? Because the pain is already that bad that they've gone looking for you. So I know we kind of tangented off, but I hope that helps

Nick (36:55): A little bit. No, and that's a great point because if you think about it, people are going to social media, they're scrolling, they're killing time. They're not doing anything particular when they're in the search engines, there's a purpose behind it. There's intent. There's meaning that's when the card comes out, the wallet starts.

Angela (37:11): So yeah, so that's what I was saying is make sure your SEO is up. Uh, even in the interim, you're still going to be out to be doing Facebook groups or things like that. And again, if you do have money, obviously the quicker routes are going to be to be looking at what advertising platforms need to be utilizing. So is it Facebook ads maybe, but maybe it's YouTube ads, maybe, maybe it's Pinterest ads. Like we really need to understand where your audience is sitting and how they're consuming content in order to really assess what's working best for that thing. It's also important to know is a lot of people will just put a lead magnet, Facebook ad that they do it themselves. That's great, but really understand Facebook ads. It is a beast Facebook ads. All right. So again, either pay to take a course, even on you, to me like a cheaper course, but understand the fundamentals about it because really you want to top a funnel, mid funnel and bottom of funnel. And what I mean by that is if you've got a lead magnet and someone's gone to the lead magnet from Facebook, from top of funnel, we want to then be retargeting them with maybe a new blog article and then we might then retarget them into a webinar. So again, it's, it's not just go to the lead magnet if you've already got that audience and you've already got that Facebook data, it's about what do we need to keep doing? And having additional touch points with that funnel.

Nick (38:27): You are dropping absolute gold here. So just so you know, some of the stuff that you've been mentioning, Evan taking notes here on the side and yeah, you've been dropping a lot of awesome stuff here, so okay. With, we start building this email list, what happens next? Do we need, I guess first off, do we need software?

Angela (38:49): Yes. So the type of software that I would say is there's a bunch of free things. Well, not free, but less costing and they can be free. It's something like MailChimp is one of the providers. Um, you've got a new one out on the market called flow desk. For example, there are less they're, uh, they're inexpensive. There's another one called MadMimi just know though that they will do the trick when you're starting out in business. However, when your business grows and you've got more funnels, what will happen is you will end up outgrowing those particular platforms. All right. So again, if you can afford $20 a month or $25 a month, I wouldn't be going to somewhere like convert kit. I really love ConvertKit. I'd still be with convert kit if I could. But when I started doing really complex automations at that time, two years ago, convert kit, couldn't do the last part of my evergreen funnel.

Angela (39:36): I even met with like the second in charge. Cause I was like, are you sure you can't do this? And then I needed to switch to active campaign. So active campaign costs me. I can't remember what it costs me per month, 125, maybe a month. But the way that the, normally any of these platforms go is you pay as the bigger your list goes, which also is a side note is going to be important that you clean your list regularly. Okay? Because you don't want to be paying for dead white. A lot of people get caught up like, oh, someone's unsubscribed and someone did this. them off. You don't need dead white in your world and you don't need to be paying for their dead white, literally. Like I love when I see unsubscribes, I'm like, Baba, I Felicia, because I'm just like, no, like it's actually, you're doing me a favor.

Angela (40:18): So just know that that, but I would, again, I personally would be starting with convert kit or active campaign, slow desk I hear is actually doing really well too. Um, they're doing a lot of, um, new things out in the market and beta testing. So there that's really good, but again, choose a platform in my opinion, that you can grow with, again, to me that also signals to the universe and the world that you're here to play bigger and you're here for the long-term. Right. So yes, it is a small cost again. And it sometimes convert. Can, I think I haven't seen it recently is if it's less than like a thousand, I don't think you're an even paying. I I'd have to double check that. So I don't want to, but double check. So they're, they're trying to help small businesses. Uh, but I would choose personally convert kit, active campaign and or flow desks.

Nick (41:00): Awesome. Okay. So yeah. So we yet having this have the convert kit, I'm a huge fan of convert kit. I'm a huge proponent. I think you are right about that. The subscriber account as well, and it's free to get started, but I'll throw links to all that stuff in the show notes. So anybody listening that wants to take a look at those tools, just head over to the show notes, you can get it there, but okay. So we have the list, we have the tool. Yeah. What are we actually doing with this list now that we have it?

Angela (41:25): Yeah. So once we get the list, we need to put them into a thing that will either be called a nurture sequence or your email sequence are your opt in sequence, I guess it just depends on who you're talking to and what that is is inside a convert kit or active campaign when someone signs up for your opt-in, it's going to trigger off in there to send them a, an automation that will have typically five to seven emails in there. And so again, these emails are typically where, um, email one is you want to just deliver the lead magnet. So like, Hey Johnny, thank you so much student. I mean, for, to meet here, you know, downloading this here's the link email two is we want to really add some value about that. And that typically sent about one day after. So it's like adding a useful tip that might be around, um, that particular, um, often that they had, um, it's really about adding genuine value.

Angela (42:16): Email three is that you're sending an email again two days after this and it's about connecting as a subject matter. So really positioning yourself. So telling your story about where you started, where you're at and just really becoming the go-to person in that email. Number four is typically around connecting with what makes you different. This has sense of it two days after. So why are you different to every other business coach? What does that look like? Um, you might throw in some testimonials in there, email number five is typically where you're seeding your offer and adding value. This is typically one day after the previous email. And again, you're starting to allude to a little bit more about like what, what you do, what this looks like, et cetera. You might drop a little hint, see what I mean with one-to-one coaching or, you know, my mastermind and then email six is when you're pitching them an offer.

Angela (43:02): Now the offer might be to a masterclass which should mean a webinar and offer might be a discount. An offer might be, um, you know, uh, discovery call and offer. Doesn't just have to be like, uh, like a financial offer. All right. It's about, what's going to take them one step closer to like interacting with you and taking the, we call them micro commitments. So we want them to take a micro commitment in that email to doing the next thing with you. So, yes. So that's like, I know it's really quick and in a nutshell, but that's, you know, you need to bring them on. No. Why do you need to do this? Well, it's like going into a bar and asking for sex. You just, I mean, I mean, it works for some people, no judgments for who did that works for. But like, you know, I go to the bar, I tap Johnny on the shoulder and I just wink.

Angela (43:50): I don't even ask, don't ask him his name. I don't ask him the other day. I said, me, you bathroom let's roll. Right. That might work for Johnny. Johnny might be a game for that, but more than likely it might not work for Johnny. So I might need to say, Hey Johnny, what's your name? Hey Johnny, can I grab your text? And then I need to do to mean have an email or two or a text or two with Johnny. Then I need to take Johnny out on a date. Or I'm just like, you know what I mean? Another email. Okay. I then, you know, send Johnny Flowers. All right. And then I might go in for the kill for Johnny. All right. So it's the same type scenario here. People you've got a court them and guide them along the way. Don't be a, I mean, again, you can, and it might work, but in my experience in this online spaces and so human to human connection, treat them like a human and not a transaction. All right. And you will end up being longterm profitable. Okay. Go in and ask for the sale. They're deleting you. And you've just lost all that hard work, creating the lead magnet, doing Facebook ads or three and Facebook groups. You get them there. And then now they're just going to disguise a dish I'm out. So again, it's like, do you mean asking for sex or I demean you need to go along a path here, people.

Nick (45:00): Well, okay. I want to be conscious of your time. Um, you're obviously on the other side of the world for anybody, everybody listening, they don't know this, but we went through a lot of technical difficulties to this recording. So I just want to thank you for coming on and sharing with the audience. Um, really, I want to give you an opportunity now to let the listeners know, like where can they get in contact with you? Whether they want the coaching or some of the services and resources that you have to offer, where do you want people to go? What do you have to offer for one and then two, where do you want them to go?

Angela (45:30): Yeah. I mean, my main thing is that I'm here to support another 3000 women in business between now and 2025. So my thing is about it. Showing women have the tools, community, and resources they need. Now, for some of you, it might be that you need my free Facebook group or my blog or my podcast, because that's where you're at in business. And that's where I want to meet you for other people that are like, actually I'm a little bit further along maybe, or I'm ready to take the leap. I do offer one-to-one consulting. I've got a mastermind and I've got a 12 month group coaching program that I do. So again, I always say just head to my website, Angelahenderson.com.au. And depending on where you're at, you can choose student mean how we further connect

Nick (46:09): And just like all the other tools and resources that we mentioned in the episode, the links to that will be in the show notes. So if you want to get in touch with Angela, make sure you head over to the show notes so you can get that link. Well, Angela, thank you so much for coming on. Like I said, you dropped some absolute gems in this episode and I'm so excited to be able to bring you on to share it. And hopefully we can help somebody start growing their email list. I know I have stuff I need to work on after talking with you. So just thank you for coming on. And it was a blast.

Angela (46:39): No worries. You have an awesome day.

New Speaker (46:40): Thanks so much.